Exercise, ADHD and Finding Balance.

We are so grateful to Nicky for spending time with us and chatting about her body story, how she found balance in her life by exploring movement, and how her recent ADHD diagnosis helps her navigate her relationship to food and movement.

Nicky, 44, is from Exeter and lives with her husband Chris. She has suddenly found a love for movement in the last few years and will happily rant on about diet culture for ages – we are so here for that, Nicky!! 

A member of Body Image Fitness, Nicky has been exploring intuitive movement and eating for a while now, and it has helped her advocate for herself better and understand that her weight doesn’t equate to her health. She is an avid reader and has been very proactive in learning more about diet culture, the non-diet approach to well-being and how neurodivergence fits into the picture. We are incredibly grateful that she shared her insights and lived experience with us in the podcast. We loved recording this episode and learnt a lot from Nicky sharing her story. We hope you will, too!

Here are a few links to resources we mentioned in our conversation:

Balance and ADHD

https://psychcentral.com/adhd/postural-sway-adhd

https://coachbit.com/the-parent-bit/balance-exercises-an-alternative-treatment-for-adhd

https://www.healthline.com/health/fitness/postural-sway-adhd

https://bodyimagefitness.co.uk/

Nicky’s amazing yoga teacher Meg’s Insta handle

https://www.instagram.com/__yogawithmeg__?igsh=MWVxa3MxYjh2azMwZQ==

Please reach out if you would like some support with your relationship to food OR movement. Ela currently has limited spaces for Intuitive Eating coaching and if you'd like to reconnect with movement, contact Christine.

AND if you enjoyed this episode, please share and follow the 'Find Your Strong podcast' and if you have time, write us a short review. It would honestly mean the world. Love to you all, Ela & Christine x

Transcript

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Ela Law: Hello and welcome back to another episode of Find your strong. Podcast we have the very big honor today to speak to Nikki, Nikki and I have known each other for a little while now, because Nikki joined my intuitive eating course at body image fitness a little while ago.

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Ela Law: and we thought she would be the perfect guest to chat about her own body image story her own

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Ela Law: story with intuitive eating. So we are very, very lucky to have her with us today. So

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Ela Law: welcome, Nikki. Hi!

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Nicky Hallam: Hi, thank you for having me on the podcast.

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Ela Law: Absolute pleasure. Do you mind just introducing yourself a little bit before we we start asking you lots and lots and lots of questions. Just tell us a little bit about yourself where you live and what you do.

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Nicky Hallam: Okay. So my name is Nikki, and I live in Exeter. So

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Nicky Hallam: body image fitness is very much based in kind of Newcastle area. So I think I'm 1 of the people that's furthest away

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Nicky Hallam: from them, and

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Nicky Hallam: and I work for housing association.

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Nicky Hallam: I'm married married to my husband for quite a while now, and we don't have any children. We don't have any pets. And

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Nicky Hallam: he's a writer journalist. So he works from home all the time

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Nicky Hallam: I work from home quite a bit of the time.

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Ela Law: Wow! How does that work out.

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Nicky Hallam: Well. The pandemic was interesting.

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Ela Law: I bet.

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Nicky Hallam: I'd never worked from home before, not really. And so when the pandemic hit and I was working from home, I was very often found

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Nicky Hallam: in his office, saying.

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Nicky Hallam: Do you want a cup of tea?

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Ela Law: Oh!

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Nicky Hallam: Can we have a chat? And cause I was used to being around a lot of other people?

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Nicky Hallam: and yeah, eventually, we've kind of settled into it. So and yeah, we'd be quite strict about breaks, like.

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Nicky Hallam: Okay, I'll see you at 11 when we'll have a cup of tea together.

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Nicky Hallam: But now it's more kind of settled.

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Christine Chessman: Oh, it's I have a similar experience. I work from home and my husband works from home.

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Christine Chessman: I find it really stressful. Nikki

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Christine Chessman: really stressed.

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Christine Chessman: I'm just like the house is not big enough for both.

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Nicky Hallam: No, we. We live in a bungalow, and we're at opposite ends.

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Christine Chessman: Oh!

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Nicky Hallam: Also, our jobs are very different. So he's very much like head down, getting on with stuff.

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Nicky Hallam: I'm usually having more meetings. I think if we were both having meetings

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Nicky Hallam: it would be too much, because we'd always be interrupting each other and hearing each other. And but he's just quietly getting on

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Nicky Hallam: with his stuff, whereas, yeah, I'm a bit more chaotic in the way that I work.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, that sounds more like it.

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Ela Law: It sounds like you found a good good way of working with each other in the same space.

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Ela Law: Tiffany.

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Nicky Hallam: Actually.

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Ela Law: Nikki, do you mind sharing a little bit about your food and body image story with us and the listeners just to sort of see you know where you started, where it all began, and maybe to where you are now. With it all.

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Ela Law: however much you want to.

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Nicky Hallam: So yeah, I'll try and do a kind of quick run through, and so on, the the kind of exercise side.

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Nicky Hallam: I've never been one for exercise. And

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Nicky Hallam: and so I'm very surprised at this point in my life that I'm talking about exercise as something I enjoy.

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Nicky Hallam: and I

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Nicky Hallam: and rubbish at like any physical stuff

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Nicky Hallam: I can't run, I can't catch, I can't throw. And so all of that stuff at school is, that's what you do. And I wasn't very good, so I would kind of avoid it

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Nicky Hallam: as much as possible, and and really hated the kind of competitiveness of it.

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Nicky Hallam: So it's never really been something I've done

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Nicky Hallam: until more recently, when I've realized actually.

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Nicky Hallam: you can do it. Your own way doesn't have to be competitive. And

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Nicky Hallam: so I've kind of come around to this idea that actually.

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Nicky Hallam: I quite like exercise, and it does feel quite good because I found something

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Nicky Hallam: that works for me.

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Nicky Hallam: and in terms of

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Nicky Hallam: diet. I've only ever Calorie counted once, and it was awful.

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Nicky Hallam: It was a complete disaster. I've got quite sort of.

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Nicky Hallam: I guess, obsessive personality.

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Nicky Hallam: and so falling into that kind of, you know, counting everything, measuring stuff.

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Nicky Hallam: recording it on your little app or whatever. And

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Nicky Hallam: you know that really doesn't work for me, and I had resisted for a long time, because, although

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Nicky Hallam: I started putting on weight when I was a teenager, and

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Nicky Hallam: I'd never dieted until later on when more for kind of health reasons.

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Nicky Hallam: it started to be something I felt I should do.

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Nicky Hallam: And yeah, kind of look at everyone else and think, oh, everyone else is doing like slimming world or weight watchers, or whatever.

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Nicky Hallam: and they're quite obsessive. But I I won't be like that. And then, of course.

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Nicky Hallam: you kind of get sucked into it, and you are.

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Ela Law: yeah. So it sounds like the sort of whole relationship with food started off okay, and it was when you were older, that things kind of went a little bit diety when you noticed what other people were doing, and was there any peer pressure, or was there any?

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Ela Law: Was this more more on you as in. I want to.

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Nicky Hallam: I think more. It was a health thing. So when I was younger I would go through periods where I didn't really eat very much, and other periods where I would eat a lot more.

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Nicky Hallam: and never really thought too much about that. So I'd get comments, you know, from people who'd say, Oh, we haven't eaten very much, or

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Nicky Hallam: whatever. But it wasn't

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Nicky Hallam: kind of a conscious thing. It was just.

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Nicky Hallam: Sometimes I needed more food, sometimes I didn't.

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Nicky Hallam: and it was only when

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Nicky Hallam: probably I was in my twenties that the doctor said, Oh.

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Nicky Hallam: you're in the obese category on the Bmi, which we all know is nonsense.

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Nicky Hallam: But I didn't know that at the time, and so

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Nicky Hallam: was thinking, well, I have to do this now. It's it's a health thing. It's not just, you know, whether I fit into a dress or whether I like the way I look, it's more about

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Nicky Hallam: my health. And so I should

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Nicky Hallam: definitely do something about that. And that's where the pressure came from.

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Christine Chessman: No, no.

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Nicky Hallam: Oh, my God, I'm gonna die if I don't do this.

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Nicky Hallam: And yeah, I think that's that's the pressure. At the point where I thought

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Nicky Hallam: right. I need to do something. And what do you do? You know

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Nicky Hallam: calories in calories out move more, eat less all that kind of stuff.

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Christine Chessman: Just wondering, Nikki, because bringing it back to circling back to what you were saying about exercise

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Christine Chessman: for you. You were sort of saying that in school you felt you were rubbish.

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Christine Chessman: It's it's the way we talk about ourselves, isn't it? And you know you weren't good at what you were in inverted comma, supposed to be good at at school.

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Christine Chessman: and schools very prescriptive, and what it's or PE classes are set in a certain way, and if you don't, if you're not good at that particular sport, that's it. And there's so many people have so many stories about themselves and movement that were created in PE or at school when they were 13, and they were made to feel shame for not

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Christine Chessman: being able to, you know, play football or play Netball, or, you know, when there were so many other things that they might have been able to do and enjoyed. And and I just wonder what prompted you. I know you were talking about. You felt

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Christine Chessman: for your health. You had to

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Christine Chessman: start making a change. But what made you choose

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Christine Chessman: body image fitness, which is obviously a different way

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Christine Chessman: to move your body. So it's did you look at other things first? st

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Nicky Hallam: Yeah. So I got a couple of Dvds to do at home.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Nicky Hallam: You know, in the living room, and

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Nicky Hallam: I did some of those, and I would find that

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Nicky Hallam: I would feel better.

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Nicky Hallam: but I couldn't sustain it, so I'd do the exercise, and I'd feel great, and I'd do for a few weeks.

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Nicky Hallam: and then it would kind of drop off.

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Nicky Hallam: and then, in about probably 2018 2019, there was a local group set up here in Exeter, called Fat Health, with a Ph. Ph. 80, which was subsidised classes for people who were in bigger bodies

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Nicky Hallam: to try out some exercise. And they had online classes. They had in person classes.

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Nicky Hallam: and I did a few of that it was.

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Nicky Hallam: And that's where it kind of changed, because it was like.

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Nicky Hallam: actually, if you're in a bigger body, some things are

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Nicky Hallam: more difficult to do, or you have to adapt them.

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Nicky Hallam: And it's kind of like a light bulb moment when somebody says, if this doesn't work for you, try it this way.

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Nicky Hallam: you know, if this doesn't feel comfortable. Do this, you know, move your belly out of the way, or whatever it might be.

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Nicky Hallam: that you kind of go. Oh.

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Nicky Hallam: okay, so it doesn't have to be. You know exactly how other people do it. And through that I found my Yoga teacher Meg, who I still work with now, did her online class and have one to one sessions with her? Well, one to 2, because my husband does it as well

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Nicky Hallam: and and online classes. And then that led me to other providers kind of in the space on social media. And particularly, I think, Becky, from misfits Becky misfits, who also works for body, image fitness which kind of led me there.

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Nicky Hallam: And it's like this whole world kind of opens out where you see people who look more like you do, and move more like you do.

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Nicky Hallam: and know what it's like. And it's

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Nicky Hallam: it makes it different, because it's not

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Nicky Hallam: a comparison with people who are very different, and.

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Nicky Hallam: you know, very flexible, very fit.

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Nicky Hallam: It's people who are kind of the same.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah. Becky's a previous guest on the podcast. She's fantastic. We love.

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Nicky Hallam: She's great.

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Christine Chessman: Absolutely amazing. We had canoa green on the podcast a few weeks ago, and she's Oh, I love her so much. But we did talk about the importance of representation in the fitness, industry, and even within this non diet space there are a number of providers who are in thinner bodies.

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Christine Chessman: And how important it is to have a diversity of instructors so that you can, if you want to work with somebody who actually understands your body because they embody what you are, and they move in the way that you move. And it's very important to be able to access that. And I think that's why that's my opinion on it.

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Christine Chessman: And that's what Noah was saying, wasn't it, Ella? That.

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Ela Law: Hmm.

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Christine Chessman: Know it's wonderful that there's a lot of of thin non-diet Pts, and that's great that you know that that's that they're in the space. And

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Christine Chessman: but it's vastly important that people feel represented in this space.

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Nicky Hallam: Yeah, definitely. I think

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Nicky Hallam: you know, one of the things about

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Nicky Hallam: Yoga was that I

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Nicky Hallam: had tried it before. And you know, watched Youtube videos and tried to do down dogs, and you know, just

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Nicky Hallam: it didn't work. I couldn't do it.

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Nicky Hallam: But then, if you see somebody who is in a bigger body, or somebody who's in a smaller body, but gives you the adaptation.

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Nicky Hallam: And you think, actually.

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Nicky Hallam: I can do this, there's just you need to maybe do it in a slightly different way. And I think

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Nicky Hallam: that's important. But also, yeah, having that representation of people who

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Nicky Hallam: you can look at and think.

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Nicky Hallam: oh, not everybody who does. You know.

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Nicky Hallam: a Zumba class is, you know, really tiny? Yeah.

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Nicky Hallam: you know, it is something I could have a go at, because I can see people who look more like me.

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Ela Law: Does. I assume that is huge. A huge confidence boost, really, because if everyone was just in a thinner body who was in that in that arena, it could be really, really off putting

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Ela Law: very exclusive and excluding. I mean, it's a similar kind of situation in the in the nutrition world as well, you know, even in the intuitive eating world a lot of people are in thinner bodies, and I have to include myself in that, and often feel like I may not be the best person to talk about certain.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Ela Law: Because I'm missing the lived experience. All I can do is sort of educate myself about and listen to people sharing their experience. So yeah, so it's a very similar picture to the to the fitness world. And I think body image fitness. Does that really well, doesn't it? Because there is a range of different bodies

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Ela Law: and a huge amount of.

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Ela Law: you know adaptability. And you know, you pick what what works for you.

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Nicky Hallam: And I think also the representation of all the other kind of intersectionalities as well. So you know, having people from different ethnic backgrounds people with different disabilities or neurodiversity, people from the queer community.

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Ela Law: Yes.

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Nicky Hallam: Having that difference, which is what body, image fitness does well as as well. But there are people from different backgrounds, and you know often on the Whatsapp group. We're talking about

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Nicky Hallam: these kind of things, but seeing

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Nicky Hallam: yourself represented. You know, if you look at football, it's always been about the men's game until more recently, when the women started to do really well. And now there are

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Nicky Hallam: young girls looking at that going. Oh, I can play football like I could be a footballer, whereas before

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Nicky Hallam: they didn't see that representation quite so much so. I think it's really important in.

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Nicky Hallam: you know, all of those things that we all see. Everybody reflected in them.

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Christine Chessman: And it's it's breaking down those stereotypes, isn't it? It's that it's so interesting. You're saying that about the football. Have you seen the video that's gone around.

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Christine Chessman: Can you run like a girl? And they've got all these people doing these little runs, you know, kind of all sort of Dinty runs, and and then they've got a girl who's actually running, or can you fight like a girl? And it's like.

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Christine Chessman: why should a girl fight in a different way. Do you know it's this sort of pre presupposition, or how am I saying it? What's the word.

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Ela Law: I know what you mean. I don't know the word. I'm I'm losing words by the day, so.

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Christine Chessman: But it is the fact that women you know it previously it was like, Oh, can you fight like a girl? And it looks very different than just, you know. If you're going into box, are you going into play football, or you're going into, why can't we do it? Why can't we be offered the chance to do things that previously you thought we could not do.

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Christine Chessman: and I think often people in larger bodies correct me if I'm wrong because I don't have the lived. Experience are seen in a certain way when it comes to fitness, which is so shaming, and has created a real I mean.

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Christine Chessman: I don't know. I think there's a lot of people are maybe scared to go into that arena to begin with, because of.

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Christine Chessman: you know the the shame that goes along with it for somebody in a larger body, because they're seen a certain way by gyms around the country, and they're not welcomed in these spaces. There's not clothes made for people to actually go to the gym in their size, and the machines are not even made in the size that people are going to fit into.

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Christine Chessman: So there's a there's an awful lot of barriers there.

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Nicky Hallam: Yeah. And it's also really contradictory, because people will say, You know, if you are in a bigger body, they'll say.

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Nicky Hallam: you need to lose weight. You need to go to the gym. But yeah, but you can't, because you can't get the clothes that you need to wear to be able to go there

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Nicky Hallam: when you go to the gym. People kind of look at you in a certain way, or they don't interact with you in the same way. And actually.

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Nicky Hallam: those places can be quite excluding for people. And I think it's the same with people who

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Nicky Hallam: have disabilities, or maybe are. Trans. For example, where

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Nicky Hallam: those spaces don't feel like a safe space. And I think

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Nicky Hallam: that's where

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Nicky Hallam: projects like body image fitness are really good because you've got that safe space which is online, but also kind of physically

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Nicky Hallam: in person. In some places as well, where

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Nicky Hallam: you know, you can have that safety and know that if you

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Nicky Hallam: are in one of those groups. You're actually welcome in that space.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Nicky Hallam: And there are other people who kind of feel the same way.

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Nicky Hallam: And there's not that

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Nicky Hallam: same kind of competitiveness. No.

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Nicky Hallam: in that. Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: I think Kim Kim, who is the founder of body image fitness, has worked so hard to try and make that a reality, hasn't she.

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Christine Chessman: because she really that's the one thing that she stands by is wanting people to feel welcome in fitness. Spaces who

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Christine Chessman: ordinarily or previously would not have been made to feel welcome. Which is

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Christine Chessman: horrendous, isn't it, Ella? Hello.

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Ela Law: It's awful. And, as Nikki said, I think it is very contradictory, isn't it? One hand we're being told. Oh, you need to lose weight, and, on the other hand, is like, well, you can't, because we can't make it accessible for you. So I think there's there's more and more businesses now who

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Ela Law: who are waking up to that, you know there's more availability, but it still is so far behind where it needs to be to make it something that is accessible for everybody. And I mean that in 2 separate words

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Ela Law: it's just something that we're, I think, at the beginning of. And I think hopefully. We'll gather a lot more momentum, Nikki. You said something earlier that I wanted to just pick up on again when you said, Oh, your doctor said you needed to lose weight. And then you sort of started looking into dieting and kind of got on onto the sort of diet train a little bit.

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Ela Law: What was the turning point for you from that? Then when did you realize actually, this isn't working? This isn't helpful for me. This isn't actually.

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Nicky Hallam: And it's very, very, very clear turning point where I got home from work one day, and I'd be doing. You know my calorie counting

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Nicky Hallam: was absolutely starving, like so hungry and so angry. My husband said, You know what's wrong with you. I was like, I'm starving, so he's like we'll have something to eat. No, I've reached my calories for the day.

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Christine Chessman: Okay.

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Nicky Hallam: Like we'll just have an apple. No. Do you know how many calories are in an apple?

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Nicky Hallam: And I could hear myself saying it?

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Nicky Hallam: This is.

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Nicky Hallam: This is ridiculous. If I'm hungry

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Nicky Hallam: like, I won't even eat an apple because I've hit that number.

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Nicky Hallam: and I'd always seen people previously, you know, who were on diets being really obsessive about, you know.

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Nicky Hallam: sins and points and

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Nicky Hallam: calories, and thinking so weird.

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Nicky Hallam: so like they're so obsessed

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Nicky Hallam: all the time. And I kind of realized I was was at that point, and I mean I

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Nicky Hallam: don't smoke. I don't take drugs. I very rarely drink, because I know the kind of personality that I have.

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Nicky Hallam: Those things are things that could be

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Nicky Hallam: dangerous for me, that I could get

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Nicky Hallam: kind of sucked into to those things and be.

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Nicky Hallam: maybe have, like quite an addictive kind of personality.

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Nicky Hallam: And so at that point where we're like, no, I can't have an apple, because it's too many calories.

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Nicky Hallam: Think my husband would divorce me if I went on a diet again.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Nicky Hallam: Recounting because I was horrendous.

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Christine Chessman: Nikki. What you said there it just oh, you know, haven't been in this space for a long time. We are not listening to our internal cues. Literally, our body is saying.

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Christine Chessman: I need food. Biologically, I need food. I'm giving you a signal that I need to be fed, you know, and we're like, Nope, push it down, push it down. I mean, it is shocking, isn't it, that we? And it is so normalized. It is so normalized in the society.

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Nicky Hallam: I remember seeing something which said, If you're you're dieting, you need to get used to the feeling of being hungry, and people are scared of feeling hungry. And so it's really good

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Nicky Hallam: when you feel hungry, and it's like, no.

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Nicky Hallam: that that can't be right, that doesn't.

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Nicky Hallam: I can't.

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Nicky Hallam: It's a month.

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Christine Chessman: There's a very there's a very well-known fitness influencer who is also a TV presenter. I'm saying no more. Who

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Christine Chessman: he basically says for women. Once they hit perimenopause, they just need to keep moving. Just don't stop moving and just eat less and just keep moving all the time. They just got to keep moving in order to keep, and it's like, Oh, my goodness, no! They need to be taking care of their bodies, which are going through this massive change.

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Nicky Hallam: Too tired to keep moving all the time.

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Christine Chessman: Why can't we nourish our bodies and take care of them? Why can't that be the rhetoric rather than no. Just keep doing more? Keep doing more. Walk away from the food. Don't let yourself eat, keep no, just no.

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Ela Law: No, no, it's not. It's not looking after yourself, is it? If you do that, and you're not resting, and you're not nourishing your body that's not self-care that's not sustainable. That's not good for you. That's not going to be making you happy. The only thing it might do is keep your weight slightly controlled. But even that isn't a given. So where are you going to end up with that approach? That's just

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Ela Law: ridiculous, isn't it? I love. I love that you had a very clear moment, because for a lot of people it's not as clear cut. It's very much

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Ela Law: gradual kind of oh, I've tried about 11 billion diets, and none of them have worked. And now I'm at an age where I kind of need to

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Ela Law: focus back to you know what I want in life, but that takes sometimes decades. So it sounds to me like you.

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Ela Law: You got out at a time where you weren't sort of completely entrenched in it. So does that mean it was a little bit easier for you to kind of step away from it because you tried it. It didn't work. You thought this is ridiculous, and you you step back out of it. Or do you still feel like, actually, I've got some issues because of that.

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Nicky Hallam: And.

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Ela Law: Spend with them.

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Nicky Hallam: It was easier to step away from, because I'd seen everyone else and thought, This is weird. And then I'd kind of had a go and thought, Yeah, definitely, it's weird. Not gonna do this

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Nicky Hallam: But also there's still that

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Nicky Hallam: thing that's kind of in the back of your head. And you see, you know, when you look at social media, you look at magazines, and you hear people talking about. You know the obesity crisis where you think

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Nicky Hallam: maybe I should be. Maybe I should have a go at, you know, maybe counting some calories or just reducing the amount of calories overall. And I think it's kind of a slippery slope, because once you start.

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Nicky Hallam: it then becomes

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Nicky Hallam: something a bit more seen. If you cut one thing out, then you maybe start to cut something else out. If you cut a few calories, you maybe start to cut more.

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Nicky Hallam: And yes, I think I did.

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Nicky Hallam: I did quite well at like not being completely sucked in.

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Nicky Hallam: But even so, it's still there. So I can't imagine what it's like if we've been in that, you know, for years.

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Nicky Hallam: and cause. I've still got that little voice saying.

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Nicky Hallam: should you be eating that.

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Ela Law: Oh, yeah.

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Ela Law: yeah, I think. But I think we've all got that little voice. It's about what you do with it. How do you respond to it, and you can either say, you know, bugger off. I'm not listening to you.

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Ela Law: Or you know you. You listen to it, and then feel that pull again right? It's

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Ela Law: I think I think it's very difficult not to have that voice. I don't know what you think, Christine, do you have that voice. I have that voice.

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Christine Chessman: We all have that voice, you know, and I'm I'm from an eating disorder background. So that's a sort of slightly different, and where I was totally sucked in for many years. And I the voice is always there. It's always the 1st voice when I go to eat anything, but I can now very easily

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Christine Chessman: push it to one side and quiet man.

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Christine Chessman: and say, No, no, I'm gonna eat this and enjoy it. Go away.

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Christine Chessman: But yeah, it is, it is kind of. And I think it's okay. It's it's accepting that. That's an automatic response. Because of years and years of conditioning.

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Christine Chessman: You know, we brought up in this dieting culture. We're living in a dieting culture. So it's very hard not to have that voice

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Christine Chessman: and not beating yourself up. If those thoughts come up because

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Christine Chessman: they're bound to

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Christine Chessman: But, Nikki, how do you do you have any concept of the ozempic era and the impact that that is having? Is that something that

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Christine Chessman: you have seen anything of or read anything about, or are aware of? Or is that not really anything that.

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Nicky Hallam: Yeah. So I've seen

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Nicky Hallam: quite a lot about it. And I

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Nicky Hallam: it's something I do think about, because there's a history of diabetes in my family.

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Nicky Hallam: So every time I go near a doctor they're like, we must test your blood sugar. So far I'm okay, but I do know it. You know, it's mostly genetic, and that's something that's quite likely to come along.

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Nicky Hallam: Know one of the treatments is those kind of injections.

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Nicky Hallam: but also

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Nicky Hallam: pretty sure my doctor will suggest weight loss as a treatment.

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Nicky Hallam: and

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Nicky Hallam: and

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Nicky Hallam: it's difficult, because.

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Nicky Hallam: you know, you don't want to have something wrong with you, and if there's a kind of.

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Christine Chessman: I know.

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Nicky Hallam: An easy way out, or a treatment, or something that

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Nicky Hallam: they tell you will help.

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Nicky Hallam: I think it's difficult, and but I do think it's

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Nicky Hallam: it's being used a lot by people who really shouldn't be using it. So people with eating disorders and people who already

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Nicky Hallam: not in the kind of overweight category.

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Nicky Hallam: who are, yeah, effectively, kind of abusing it for for weight loss. And I think

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Nicky Hallam: it's not

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Nicky Hallam: being controlled strictly. And apparently you can just go on the Internet and buy it. Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: Okay.

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Nicky Hallam: Which seems crazy like it's a drug. It can make you really unwell.

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Nicky Hallam: And and people can just get hold of it.

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Ela Law: Scary. It's really.

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Nicky Hallam: They are really scary.

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Ela Law: It's an interesting one, isn't it? Because you know you, on one hand, if your doctor says you need to have some medication, because if you are diabetic, you do need to manage it somehow, and lifestyle is, you know, not always going to be the thing that that works. So, having medication. There's no shame in that at all. It's an interesting one, though, because if, indeed, that medication then also leads to

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Ela Law: to weight loss potentially for a period of time. You have to kind of juggle that in your head. Right? Is that you know. How? How am I dealing with that? So that can be a very interesting situation to find yourself in.

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Christine Chessman: There's they've said that since the Ozampic Era has begun the publications, health and fitness, books and publications, the sale of those has gone down by about 20%.

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Ela Law: Oh!

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Christine Chessman: And that is a real big red flag, because that's it's like, Oh, it's okay. This can help now. So I don't need to think about health or fitness, that's and that's the scary thing, because it's not a panacea. It's not like, oh, I'll inject myself, and I'm not healthy.

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Christine Chessman: because weight loss does not equal health.

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Ela Law: Oh.

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Ela Law: really.

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Christine Chessman: Oh, I was gonna.

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Nicky Hallam: Big thing, isn't it? That's the big kind of realization that I've had in the last sort of year or so is actually.

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Nicky Hallam: it's not, you know, weight loss is not a treatment

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Nicky Hallam: and weight loss doesn't mean that you're healthier, or that you will get healthier. It's more about

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Nicky Hallam: the moving and what you're doing, and how you're doing it, and how you're looking after yourself. So, for example, I saw one of Christine's reels on Instagram a few weeks back about resting.

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Nicky Hallam: And it's just it's common sense.

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Nicky Hallam: Oh, yeah, you are supposed to rest in between doing stuff.

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Nicky Hallam: It just seems so obvious when somebody says it.

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Christine Chessman: But it's and how do you, when you've got into movement, now through body, image fitness? How do you find yourself looking forward to it, do you? Is there certain things you enjoy? Is there? So have you found your flow with it? What's

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Christine Chessman: how do you feel about movement now, Nikki?

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Nicky Hallam: Yeah, so

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Nicky Hallam: the yoga is pretty consistent sort of 3, 4, even 5 times a week.

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Nicky Hallam: I find it

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Nicky Hallam: really helpful.

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Nicky Hallam: for my Adhd, for my anxiety, for my well-being, for my kind of movement, and and

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Nicky Hallam: Pilates, I've kind of picked up a bit, and the strength

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Nicky Hallam: I really love the strength stuff. So I did your class on Saturday. Christine and my back felt a lot better afterwards.

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Christine Chessman: Oh, I'm so glad because I was worried. I was.

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Nicky Hallam: Yeah, I've got I've got scoliosis, and I've got at the moment I've got really dodgy lower back.

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Christine Chessman: And.

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Nicky Hallam: And I think that's the other thing with

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Nicky Hallam: that I found with exercise is that

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Nicky Hallam: sometimes I can't do it. So currently, I can't stand for more than about 5 min. I can't walk very far.

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Nicky Hallam: but I can do yoga.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Nicky Hallam: And I can do

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Nicky Hallam: body weight, strength, stuff some of it, and I have to adapt it, but I can still do it, whereas before

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Nicky Hallam: I would have thought

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Nicky Hallam: I've got bad back. I can't do that, and or I've got some aches and pains, or you know I'm not very well. But I think

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Nicky Hallam: once you

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Nicky Hallam: kind of know your body a bit more, and you have that connection, you can kind of feel like, Oh.

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Nicky Hallam: okay, I'm gonna sit this one out. This is not

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Nicky Hallam: gonna work for me. And

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Nicky Hallam: and so I think I've been more consistent

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Nicky Hallam: with that. But I have also taken breaks, and whereas before.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Nicky Hallam: I'd take like a week off, and I'd have a week off for holiday or something.

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Nicky Hallam: and then I'd have to almost start all over again.

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Nicky Hallam: whereas now it's kind of it ebbs and flows a little bit, but it feels much more

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Nicky Hallam: kind of intuitive and natural to to do that, and so sometimes I really need to do a dance class kind of get some energy out.

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Nicky Hallam: And other times I just need to lie on the floor.

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Nicky Hallam: you know different things for different times.

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Ela Law: Much. It's just brilliant. I just I wonder how long it took you to get to this place, because it sounds like

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Ela Law: it didn't just happen overnight, like, Oh, I know what I'm going to do. Was there a bit of struggling about resting? Was there a bit of I don't know what I enjoy. I don't know what's good for my body, or did you did that sort of all fall into place bit by bit.

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Nicky Hallam: Yeah. So it's I mean, I'm

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Nicky Hallam: I'm 43. It's been 43 years before I've learned this. And

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Nicky Hallam: and I think because

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Nicky Hallam: when I was at school I would always be the slowest person. So when they make you do 3 laps before you play netball

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Nicky Hallam: and everyone else had done 3, and I'd done one.

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Nicky Hallam: and everyone's kind of looking at you sort of huffing and puffing your way around. And and you know you're playing

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Nicky Hallam: hockey with people who are like county level players.

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Nicky Hallam: and you're just stood there kind of waiting for a stray ball to maybe come your way.

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Nicky Hallam: And one year we were split into ability groups

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Nicky Hallam: for PE. So we had the county level players, and then.

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Nicky Hallam: like the smokers and everyone else kind of in the other set.

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Nicky Hallam: it was brilliant.

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Nicky Hallam: We had so much fun.

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Ela Law: Oh!

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Nicky Hallam: We would take a rest, so we would play a little bit football. We'd go sit under a tree for a bit.

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Nicky Hallam: Everyone have a bit of a rest we'd carry on. It wasn't competitive, and they only did it for one year.

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Nicky Hallam: I don't know why they did it that year, and they didn't do it any other years.

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Ela Law: Okay.

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Nicky Hallam: But that's okay.

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Ela Law: Feel sort of strange to be put in a set or something.

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Nicky Hallam: No, it felt I mean for me. It felt so much better because I wasn't trying to compete with people who were

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Nicky Hallam: really kind of super fit, and we were all

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Nicky Hallam: we're all just there having fun.

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Christine Chessman: I'm just doing it.

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Nicky Hallam: Because, you know, that's what we were doing. We weren't trying to win.

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Ela Law: Bye.

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Nicky Hallam: So it took that competitiveness. Right? That was, yeah, that was really good. And I think.

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Nicky Hallam: you know, I've kind of struggled with

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Nicky Hallam: because of my back. Some things, you know. Sometimes it can be quite bad and quite painful. And other times it's kind of okay.

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Nicky Hallam: And I've always walked quite a lot until the last few years. And so I was really struggling with

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Nicky Hallam: not being able to do that

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Nicky Hallam: and thinking about. You know, what can I do.

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Nicky Hallam: and and the yoga kind of fit into that. But then

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Nicky Hallam: I wanted more. I was like, well, actually.

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Nicky Hallam: I'm enjoying this, which is something that I didn't

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Nicky Hallam: know before. So maybe I can try other things, and I think with body image fitness they've got so many different

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00:33:58.890 --> 00:34:01.190
Nicky Hallam: things to have a go at. I mean, I've tried

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Nicky Hallam: some things that haven't kept up with. I tried twerking, and I did.

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Christine Chessman: Cheers.

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Nicky Hallam: I could not I, my my hips and my bum just don't move.

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Christine Chessman: My mine don't move like that, either. Maybe I could learn over 5 years, but I

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Christine Chessman: I can't do that with my bum. It's really upsetting.

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Nicky Hallam: Thought I'd be able to. I was like, I've got big bum. Why, I'd be able to do this, and then no, it's just

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Nicky Hallam: I can't get it, and I'm I find it quite difficult to follow. So if I'm doing a dance class

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Nicky Hallam: I will not be doing what the teacher is doing, I'll be doing my own version.

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Ela Law: Freestyle.

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Nicky Hallam: Yeah, because I can't. I've not got the coordination. I can't follow some of the things, but I think that it doesn't matter.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: No, no! And you know what was one of the most joyous classes I've ever taught was I used to teach the strength class, and one of the participants on Zoom was just always doing something completely different, but in a really beautiful kind of like balletic way, just completely making it up, but having the best time, and I loved it.

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Ela Law: Showed up right. She was happy.

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Christine Chessman: Showing up and like just really making up their own stuff. And it was just lovely.

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Christine Chessman: I just thought, isn't that great? Because they're they're joining with everybody, feeling that sense of community and doing what works for them in that moment.

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Christine Chessman: And I think that's.

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Nicky Hallam: Sometimes. That's what you need is you just you need that slot in your diary.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Nicky Hallam: For people to say. That's when I'm going to do it. But maybe you're not

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Nicky Hallam: doing exactly what they're doing.

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Christine Chessman: And Nikki, can you? Can you rest?

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Christine Chessman: Can you take a day? How do you feel about a day off without any yoga, without any strength without any movement. Does that make you? Do you feel like, oh, I need to move, or are you very happy to

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Christine Chessman: rest and embrace.

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Nicky Hallam: I'm generally okay with resting. If I've got a good book you'll find me on the sofa, not moving for hours.

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Nicky Hallam: like what I am.

391
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Nicky Hallam: Yeah, I think more so

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Nicky Hallam: now than I used to be. So I used to be. I have to go out of the house every day, and I have to be

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Nicky Hallam: moving and doing things, and I think the pandemic was one of the things that

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Nicky Hallam: change that.

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Christine Chessman: Hmm.

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Nicky Hallam: Obviously we couldn't go out by free today.

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Nicky Hallam: and I think I felt a lot more settled about

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Nicky Hallam: not doing things in general. I mean movement being one of those. But you know, kind of social stuff as well. And

399
00:36:30.430 --> 00:36:32.640
Nicky Hallam: yeah, I just, I got used to

400
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Nicky Hallam: being at home

401
00:36:34.820 --> 00:36:37.909
Nicky Hallam: and making that decision of, you know, when I got up in the morning.

402
00:36:38.110 --> 00:36:45.459
Nicky Hallam: am I going to do some movement today? Am I going to do some Yoga? Am I going to do some Zumba, or am I going to rest? And also

403
00:36:45.660 --> 00:36:47.140
Nicky Hallam: recognising?

404
00:36:47.310 --> 00:36:52.159
Nicky Hallam: Hmm! You know my leg feels a bit dodgy today? Maybe I should

405
00:36:52.190 --> 00:36:55.350
Nicky Hallam: rest that and not do any leg stuff

406
00:36:55.600 --> 00:36:57.400
Nicky Hallam: rather than kind of pushing

407
00:36:57.480 --> 00:37:03.029
Nicky Hallam: through, which is what I'd had, especially with my back. So I had a lot of Physio when I was a teenager.

408
00:37:03.180 --> 00:37:06.700
Nicky Hallam: and I really really hurt my back. And they just said.

409
00:37:06.900 --> 00:37:11.727
Nicky Hallam: You know, just keep going. Just keep doing Physio. Keep pushing through.

410
00:37:12.870 --> 00:37:20.349
Nicky Hallam: not entirely sure that was the best advice. But that's always been what I've done until I've kind of reached this point where

411
00:37:20.410 --> 00:37:24.449
Nicky Hallam: I'm not able to push through anymore. I think when I was younger I could just go.

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Nicky Hallam: It's a bit of pain, and I'll push through, and it will go away, whereas now I'm a bit older it doesn't go away like everything aches

413
00:37:32.570 --> 00:37:33.269
Nicky Hallam: all the time.

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00:37:33.270 --> 00:37:34.920
Ela Law: Is your body, warning you to.

415
00:37:34.920 --> 00:37:35.380
Nicky Hallam: Yeah.

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Ela Law: Look, love, you need to rest, I think part of the the fear of resting comes from the fact that our movement, routine or how we move isn't sustainable.

417
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Ela Law: because if it's sustainable, we know we can go back to it, and we know we're doing it for the right reasons, for the reasons that you know it brings us joy. It makes us stronger, makes us feel better if we haven't got that. And we just move because someone tells us what we need to do and how much of those things we need to do. It's it's not sustainable. And we feel like we've we've failed at it, so we might as well not bother anymore.

418
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Ela Law: But it sounds very much like when you have a rest, you rest because your body saying, actually, no, thank you, not today. But you have all of those

419
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Ela Law: things that you enjoy like Yoga, and like strength training that you will pick up again, because you know it makes you feel good. If you didn't have that, you'd probably be like oh, well, I failed at that. I'm not doing that again, so I think it really highlights what you just said. It really highlights how important it is to make movement sustainable, and something that

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Ela Law: we enjoy, and that gives us all these other benefits.

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Nicky Hallam: Yeah. And I think before I would think.

422
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Nicky Hallam: Why, why can't I keep this up? It makes me feel really good. I've been doing it really consistently for like a month or 2.

423
00:38:54.110 --> 00:38:56.689
Nicky Hallam: Why can't I just keep going?

424
00:38:56.930 --> 00:38:58.250
Nicky Hallam: Whereas

425
00:38:58.280 --> 00:39:05.410
Nicky Hallam: I think I've kind of realized there were a few things I mean, I got diagnosed with Adhd a couple of years ago a year ago. Actually, I think. And

426
00:39:05.460 --> 00:39:18.470
Nicky Hallam: and so that makes sense of some of that needing the variety of doing different things. But I also need a routine. So it's getting the balance between having things planned in and having things I can just pick up and go.

427
00:39:18.530 --> 00:39:25.120
Nicky Hallam: Oh, I just fancy doing that now, or I'll have a go at that and see what it's like. And and I think also

428
00:39:25.320 --> 00:39:26.430
Nicky Hallam: it is

429
00:39:27.480 --> 00:39:31.369
Nicky Hallam: something about getting older and feeling it more.

430
00:39:31.370 --> 00:39:32.110
Christine Chessman: Yeah.

431
00:39:32.690 --> 00:39:36.799
Nicky Hallam: You know, having those aches and pains and kind of knowing the difference between.

432
00:39:37.080 --> 00:39:40.789
Nicky Hallam: Oh, I've got a bit of an ache because I've been sat still for too long at my desk.

433
00:39:40.910 --> 00:39:41.610
Ela Law: Cool.

434
00:39:41.890 --> 00:39:43.819
Nicky Hallam: I've really done something bad.

435
00:39:44.010 --> 00:39:46.839
Nicky Hallam: I need to rest. And

436
00:39:47.140 --> 00:39:51.339
Nicky Hallam: but it's having that connection with your body, I think, and those

437
00:39:51.380 --> 00:39:57.380
Nicky Hallam: also in terms of hunger like those hunger cues, and knowing what's happening in your

438
00:39:57.460 --> 00:39:58.540
Nicky Hallam: 40

439
00:39:58.550 --> 00:40:00.759
Nicky Hallam: and what your body needs, I find it.

440
00:40:00.800 --> 00:40:07.240
Nicky Hallam: The diet part of it is harder because I have to plan what I'm gonna have. And I have to have all the ingredients.

441
00:40:07.300 --> 00:40:11.050
Nicky Hallam: And then I might go to the fridge and be like. I can't be bothered.

442
00:40:11.810 --> 00:40:16.309
Nicky Hallam: especially, you know, if I've had a difficult day or a hard day, retired

443
00:40:16.590 --> 00:40:19.299
Nicky Hallam: the Adhd. Kind of kicks in, and I'm like

444
00:40:19.480 --> 00:40:20.110
Nicky Hallam: like

445
00:40:20.900 --> 00:40:25.840
Nicky Hallam: that's not. I'm not cooking. I'm not standing in the kitchen for even like 10 min.

446
00:40:25.980 --> 00:40:30.030
Nicky Hallam: unless I can put it in the oven and leave it or put it in the microwave.

447
00:40:30.240 --> 00:40:31.729
Nicky Hallam: not happening.

448
00:40:31.730 --> 00:40:44.640
Christine Chessman: Does it? Does it help you with the diagnosis, or does that help you? Just have a bit more compassion for yourself? With that, with that decision, fatigue, and with that like oh, I really feel that.

449
00:40:44.640 --> 00:40:50.840
Nicky Hallam: Yeah, definitely. And I think because before I knew I had Adhd, I thought.

450
00:40:50.860 --> 00:40:53.650
Nicky Hallam: well, I did have anxiety, but I thought it was all

451
00:40:53.690 --> 00:40:54.880
Nicky Hallam: anxiety.

452
00:40:54.880 --> 00:40:55.320
Christine Chessman: Hmm.

453
00:40:55.320 --> 00:40:59.409
Nicky Hallam: And the way that you deal with that is, you expose yourself to stuff.

454
00:40:59.550 --> 00:41:04.670
Nicky Hallam: And and one of the areas I had anxiety about was exercise, because when you exercise.

455
00:41:04.800 --> 00:41:09.350
Nicky Hallam: you get out of breath and you get really hot, and it feels like a panic attack.

456
00:41:10.109 --> 00:41:14.780
Nicky Hallam: But actually, now I know I've got Adhd. I don't push myself

457
00:41:15.100 --> 00:41:28.899
Nicky Hallam: into things that maybe make me uncomfortable, I think. Okay. Well, if I'm going to exercise, I make sure I've got a fan on and make sure I've got lots of water and make sure I take breaks if I start to feel a bit overwhelmed by the kind of sensory stuff.

458
00:41:29.590 --> 00:41:31.139
Nicky Hallam: and that's not something

459
00:41:31.220 --> 00:41:33.989
Nicky Hallam: I really knew about before, and the same with

460
00:41:34.020 --> 00:41:36.400
Nicky Hallam: eating or something. Why can I not be

461
00:41:36.710 --> 00:41:39.780
Nicky Hallam: consistently kind of planning and cooking.

462
00:41:40.160 --> 00:41:42.780
Nicky Hallam: and I can do it for a while, and then I can't do it.

463
00:41:42.950 --> 00:41:45.789
Nicky Hallam: And it really does help, I think, having that

464
00:41:45.990 --> 00:41:48.469
Nicky Hallam: diagnosis because it explains

465
00:41:49.040 --> 00:41:57.180
Nicky Hallam: so much stuff. And also it helps in terms of like exercising, is really good for Adhd, and apparently.

466
00:41:57.180 --> 00:41:57.980
Christine Chessman: Yes.

467
00:41:57.980 --> 00:42:09.410
Nicky Hallam: There's something to do with balance like balancing is really good for Adhd. So I I told my yoga teacher, Meg, I was like I need to do some balancing, because apparently it's really good for Adhd.

468
00:42:09.410 --> 00:42:20.150
Christine Chessman: You know, balancing is great for anxiety. As well, because it's really focuses your mind. You're really the only thing you can focus on is exactly where you are in that moment

469
00:42:20.620 --> 00:42:28.030
Christine Chessman: you know that overthinking brain which is just going like that actually goes. You know, and it gives you a little break

470
00:42:28.250 --> 00:42:30.800
Christine Chessman: if you're anything like me, who's brilliant, is like crap.

471
00:42:31.460 --> 00:42:37.209
Christine Chessman: All the time. I'm an undiagnosed but soon to be diagnosed. Adhd person. So.

472
00:42:37.853 --> 00:42:38.520
Ela Law: I hate.

473
00:42:38.520 --> 00:42:44.266
Christine Chessman: Hear you with the main planning. I drives me in. San, drives my husband and Sam drives the whole family into

474
00:42:45.140 --> 00:42:51.169
Christine Chessman: but and and that I think the diagnosis itself. It's not to be underestimated. The

475
00:42:51.620 --> 00:43:04.389
Christine Chessman: you know how things that you've really struggled with that. Maybe now, as things are slotting into place that maybe gives you that sense of well, that actually wasn't my fault. That was nothing to do with me. That's how my brain works.

476
00:43:04.825 --> 00:43:05.260
Nicky Hallam: That's.

477
00:43:05.260 --> 00:43:10.989
Christine Chessman: Why, I find that harder than other people seem to find it, and it's giving yourself that grace

478
00:43:11.980 --> 00:43:12.680
Christine Chessman: rather than.

479
00:43:12.900 --> 00:43:24.770
Nicky Hallam: And it makes sense of why the exercise that I find works for me is when I'm physically doing something, but also having to concentrate. So if I'm trying to follow someone in a dance class.

480
00:43:24.910 --> 00:43:30.600
Nicky Hallam: I have to really concentrate on the the 2 things they're doing and the kind of watching, and

481
00:43:30.980 --> 00:43:39.749
Nicky Hallam: and that's why you know, things like playing football don't work for me because I get distracted and I get bored easily, and if I haven't got the ball.

482
00:43:40.100 --> 00:43:46.099
Nicky Hallam: It's really boring, you know. If you're playing hockey and you haven't got the ball, you just stood there. Nothing's happening.

483
00:43:46.120 --> 00:43:47.570
Nicky Hallam: I need to be

484
00:43:47.920 --> 00:43:51.110
Nicky Hallam: kind of doing and thinking at the same time, and I think

485
00:43:51.580 --> 00:43:53.430
Nicky Hallam: that's the kind of thing that

486
00:43:53.680 --> 00:44:05.550
Nicky Hallam: I didn't learn when I was younger. You know, if I'd had that if somebody had said, Let's try all of these different things. And we did do quite a lot of different sports when I was at school. But if somebody had

487
00:44:05.890 --> 00:44:07.030
Nicky Hallam: said, You know.

488
00:44:07.400 --> 00:44:19.569
Nicky Hallam: what do you enjoy doing what feels good? Why does it feel good? I might have come to this sooner, but I think because there's a lot of focus on team sports and a lot of time standing around and waiting your turn. And

489
00:44:20.040 --> 00:44:24.319
Nicky Hallam: you know it. Just it didn't work for me, whereas.

490
00:44:24.500 --> 00:44:27.290
Nicky Hallam: yeah, you know, kind of being able to log on. And okay.

491
00:44:27.390 --> 00:44:34.639
Nicky Hallam: you know, what am I doing today? I'm watching somebody. They're showing me what I need to do. Okay, now, I need to remember that and do it.

492
00:44:34.640 --> 00:44:35.130
Christine Chessman: Hmm.

493
00:44:35.130 --> 00:44:40.729
Nicky Hallam: Kind of takes up the focus of my mind. And and yeah, you know, concentrating on not falling over.

494
00:44:41.060 --> 00:44:47.388
Nicky Hallam: not bumping into a wall, which I I do quite a lot. Always got bruises, because I'm always walking into stuff.

495
00:44:49.020 --> 00:44:54.749
Christine Chessman: Yeah. Oh, that's I love this. I love this Ella. You've got a question. I saw you writing furiously.

496
00:44:54.750 --> 00:45:13.849
Ela Law: No, I'm just writing notes, because it's really fascinating the whole idea of balancing exercises being helpful for Adhd. I've not come across that. So I think that is incredibly helpful just to hear that, and to kind of see

497
00:45:13.850 --> 00:45:33.809
Ela Law: where people who might struggle with balance actually, that might give them a little indication as to how their brain works and how practicing that can be quite helpful, not not just on a physical and balancing on one leg, but also in terms of feeling more balanced. I think that is just really, really

498
00:45:34.080 --> 00:45:37.730
Ela Law: cool to hear. I really love that. So thank you for sharing that.

499
00:45:37.910 --> 00:45:41.079
Christine Chessman: But it's a really interesting insight. What you said about sport

500
00:45:41.250 --> 00:45:50.639
Christine Chessman: and how they're waiting your turn. I never put those things together as to why somebody with Adhd might struggle with that. I hadn't put that together. So that's really interesting, Nikki.

501
00:45:50.640 --> 00:45:52.088
Nicky Hallam: I hadn't till I said it.

502
00:45:53.380 --> 00:45:55.020
Ela Law: So we're all learning today.

503
00:45:55.020 --> 00:45:55.650
Nicky Hallam: Good.

504
00:45:56.408 --> 00:45:59.511
Nicky Hallam: Yeah. I just thought, Why didn't I like it? I was really boring.

505
00:45:59.750 --> 00:46:14.229
Christine Chessman: I know it's just anything waiting your turn, or just waiting at the bus. Stop. But, Emma, I was going to ask you a question which seems like a weird question. I'm doing some work with Bree Campos. Who talks? She does a lot about body grief.

506
00:46:14.380 --> 00:46:18.920
Christine Chessman: And she said if she could wave a magic wand she would be in a smaller body.

507
00:46:19.260 --> 00:46:24.269
Christine Chessman: So you know, she's very much pro taking up space and

508
00:46:24.340 --> 00:46:36.960
Christine Chessman: and grieving the body that you wanted to have, and sitting with it and accepting, you know, going through the stages of that and and bargaining, you know, going through all of the stages and getting to that point of acceptance.

509
00:46:36.970 --> 00:46:46.770
Christine Chessman: But equally, she said, not not osembic, not but if she could wave a magic wand she would. She would take the center body. She would take the smaller body because it helps her navigate

510
00:46:46.850 --> 00:46:58.909
Christine Chessman: would help her navigate through life a little bit easier, and it's just asking you the same question. Would you have you got to a point of acceptance where you actually are? Happy as you were, and

511
00:46:59.280 --> 00:47:01.249
Christine Chessman: would choose to stay

512
00:47:01.560 --> 00:47:04.720
Christine Chessman: in the body that you're in? Or would you ever want to

513
00:47:04.890 --> 00:47:06.640
Christine Chessman: wave the magic wands.

514
00:47:06.900 --> 00:47:08.529
Nicky Hallam: Oh, yeah, I'd wave the magic wand

515
00:47:09.490 --> 00:47:11.690
Nicky Hallam: for sure. Yeah. I mean, however

516
00:47:11.810 --> 00:47:15.949
Nicky Hallam: much I might accept the body that I'm in now.

517
00:47:16.310 --> 00:47:18.499
Nicky Hallam: it does make things more difficult?

518
00:47:18.500 --> 00:47:19.400
Christine Chessman: Like.

519
00:47:19.640 --> 00:47:20.710
Nicky Hallam: People

520
00:47:21.190 --> 00:47:38.989
Nicky Hallam: do have stereotypes, and people have thoughts which quite often they will tell you without you asking for them. And and there are assumptions that people make. And and it's quite, it's actually quite ableist. Not that being fat is a disability, but

521
00:47:39.140 --> 00:47:41.289
Nicky Hallam: assuming that people can

522
00:47:41.400 --> 00:47:47.620
Nicky Hallam: exercise and assuming that people have got control over what they're eating and what they could eat.

523
00:47:47.830 --> 00:47:50.030
Nicky Hallam: And and I think

524
00:47:50.620 --> 00:47:54.539
Nicky Hallam: it would be easier to be in a smaller body because you can

525
00:47:54.750 --> 00:47:57.200
Nicky Hallam: fit in seats like, you know.

526
00:47:57.760 --> 00:47:59.059
Nicky Hallam: Got arms on them

527
00:47:59.730 --> 00:48:02.890
Nicky Hallam: pretty much. Okay. But you know you go to the cinema.

528
00:48:03.420 --> 00:48:03.920
Christine Chessman: Yeah.

529
00:48:03.930 --> 00:48:12.500
Nicky Hallam: Sometimes, and being able to buy clothes on the High Street, and just walk into a shop and try something on that's in your size, and

530
00:48:13.250 --> 00:48:27.059
Nicky Hallam: you know all of those kind of things. And you know we talked about healthcare earlier walking into a Gp surgery and not have them just go. Oh, whatever it is, you need to lose weight. You know the kind of classic. Oh, you've got an ear infection. You need to lose weight.

531
00:48:27.060 --> 00:48:27.399
Christine Chessman: Right.

532
00:48:27.740 --> 00:48:32.560
Nicky Hallam: And and luckily I don't have a Gp. Who's like that now, and

533
00:48:32.570 --> 00:48:38.740
Nicky Hallam: but I have in the past, and I think there are assumptions that people make, you know they will

534
00:48:39.700 --> 00:48:43.039
Nicky Hallam: assume. You know my previous Gp. Had assumed that

535
00:48:43.310 --> 00:48:44.780
Nicky Hallam: I was eating

536
00:48:44.940 --> 00:48:50.680
Nicky Hallam: I don't know what like 500 Burgers a day or something. I don't know what I thought, and that I didn't do any exercise.

537
00:48:50.690 --> 00:48:56.990
Nicky Hallam: And actually, that's not necessarily true. And if you're in a smaller body. I don't think people make those same assumptions.

538
00:48:57.200 --> 00:49:07.560
Nicky Hallam: I know if you're in a very small body, say, talking to my therapist recently, she's in very small body, and so people will comment to her. You need to eat more.

539
00:49:07.560 --> 00:49:08.850
Christine Chessman: Yeah, and.

540
00:49:09.190 --> 00:49:12.310
Nicky Hallam: So I think it kind of affects everybody. But yeah, I would.

541
00:49:12.540 --> 00:49:15.110
Nicky Hallam: I'd take that magic wand. I think most people would.

542
00:49:15.710 --> 00:49:16.110
Ela Law: Hmm.

543
00:49:16.110 --> 00:49:23.540
Christine Chessman: And and I think it is really, you know, we watched, we talked about the movie or the documentary, your fat friend, a lot with Aubrey Gordon.

544
00:49:23.670 --> 00:49:32.219
Christine Chessman: and it was like seeing the world through her eyes, which you know, for people who are not in fat bodies or not in larger bodies. It's

545
00:49:32.330 --> 00:49:42.980
Christine Chessman: so valuable to get a glimpse into what it's actually like to navigate the world and have to think about. You know how you're gonna sit down, or what shops you're gonna go into, or

546
00:49:43.050 --> 00:49:58.699
Christine Chessman: you know how you're going to be treated, what people are going to say to you in the street, not being able to get care at a doctor surgery for an injury or an issue that you're having. You know we people here do not live in or have that lived experience have no idea what that's like.

547
00:49:58.700 --> 00:50:00.089
Nicky Hallam: And I think I'm

548
00:50:00.120 --> 00:50:03.140
Nicky Hallam: quite privileged, like I'm a Cis white woman.

549
00:50:03.270 --> 00:50:04.230
Nicky Hallam: and

550
00:50:04.550 --> 00:50:06.989
Nicky Hallam: I'm reasonably well educated.

551
00:50:07.070 --> 00:50:10.130
Nicky Hallam: I'm happy to, you know. Talk to you

552
00:50:10.200 --> 00:50:12.180
Nicky Hallam: a doctor as another kind of human.

553
00:50:12.180 --> 00:50:13.540
Christine Chessman: Yes, I am.

554
00:50:13.540 --> 00:50:24.399
Nicky Hallam: And put my thoughts across, and I'm getting more comfortable at kind of fighting my corner. But some people don't have that privilege in being able to

555
00:50:24.410 --> 00:50:28.810
Nicky Hallam: say that or navigate those things. And I think I'm really lucky

556
00:50:29.140 --> 00:50:36.800
Nicky Hallam: that I've learned what I've learned, and I'm really lucky that I found body, image, fitness, and people kind of associated with it. And I've read

557
00:50:37.120 --> 00:50:40.790
Nicky Hallam: different books now, and I've learned so much more

558
00:50:40.830 --> 00:50:41.840
Nicky Hallam: about

559
00:50:41.870 --> 00:50:51.139
Nicky Hallam: you know where all of this comes from, and the kind of misogyny and racism that the mi and and all this kind of stuff comes from

560
00:50:51.420 --> 00:50:52.750
Nicky Hallam: that. Actually.

561
00:50:53.080 --> 00:50:55.070
Nicky Hallam: that puts me in a much

562
00:50:55.630 --> 00:50:57.549
Nicky Hallam: easier place, because

563
00:50:57.970 --> 00:51:03.825
Nicky Hallam: I know I can counter some of those arguments, and some of those things people might say

564
00:51:04.200 --> 00:51:05.849
Nicky Hallam: and other people might not.

565
00:51:05.890 --> 00:51:06.980
Nicky Hallam: How's that?

566
00:51:06.980 --> 00:51:27.239
Ela Law: Is that something that you would would sort of say to people who are maybe at the beginning of realizing how how much damage has been done to them that you know. Educate yourself about these things so that you feel more equipped to deal with all of those stresses during your normal, everyday life.

567
00:51:27.240 --> 00:51:30.709
Nicky Hallam: Yeah. And what I would say is, it will make you really angry. Yeah.

568
00:51:31.130 --> 00:51:31.550
Ela Law: Yes.

569
00:51:31.550 --> 00:51:33.970
Nicky Hallam: So be prepared for that.

570
00:51:33.970 --> 00:51:34.380
Ela Law: Agree.

571
00:51:34.380 --> 00:51:40.640
Nicky Hallam: Yeah. So we we read the beauty myth for the body image, fitness book group. And

572
00:51:40.780 --> 00:51:44.080
Nicky Hallam: and yeah, I think that made most of us pretty angry.

573
00:51:44.380 --> 00:51:45.179
Ela Law: Free! Yes.

574
00:51:45.180 --> 00:51:45.645
Nicky Hallam: Yeah.

575
00:51:46.110 --> 00:51:52.979
Christine Chessman: I mean, there's so many books we should put a few of them in the show notes. Actually, there's we've got a lot of recommendations. And you know there's

576
00:51:53.000 --> 00:52:18.420
Christine Chessman: I absolutely agree, I think, though, the importance is having that community that bolsters that, because even though there's all this knowledge, and we know about the racist roots of diet culture. We know, you know, the vast majority of people out there are not aware of that, and are kind of just living in the culture. And just sort of it's being normalized everywhere and not really thinking to that. So you really need to have.

577
00:52:18.590 --> 00:52:23.079
Christine Chessman: you know, a community around you because we are swimming upstream.

578
00:52:23.290 --> 00:52:23.800
Ela Law: You know.

579
00:52:23.800 --> 00:52:28.279
Christine Chessman: You're swimming that, and you need that bolstering of the community. I think.

580
00:52:28.280 --> 00:52:36.900
Nicky Hallam: You need to. You need to curate your Instagram feed. Yeah. And yeah, follow all the people from body image fitness. And and the people that they follow.

581
00:52:37.030 --> 00:52:39.919
Nicky Hallam: and then you'll get a good kind of community, because I think

582
00:52:40.010 --> 00:52:45.840
Nicky Hallam: people who are within that diet culture. If you try to tell them any of this stuff. We'll just look at you as though you've got 3 heads.

583
00:52:45.840 --> 00:52:50.469
Christine Chessman: Or just just think you're wrong. Just think, you don't know what you're talking about. Yeah.

584
00:52:50.480 --> 00:52:53.980
Christine Chessman: And it's Ella. Any parting words, questions.

585
00:52:53.980 --> 00:52:57.350
Ela Law: Oh, I could just continue this chat for hours.

586
00:52:57.350 --> 00:52:58.559
Christine Chessman: Yeah, me, too.

587
00:52:58.560 --> 00:53:02.869
Ela Law: We should probably shouldn't take up much more of Nikki's time. It was just so

588
00:53:02.940 --> 00:53:15.860
Ela Law: so interesting, and thank you so much for for your time. I just. I thought it was a really really interesting conversation. I don't know how we managed to get an hour done, and it felt like 10 min. Really.

589
00:53:16.133 --> 00:53:19.419
Christine Chessman: Nikki. I didn't use any of the questions that we had script.

590
00:53:19.420 --> 00:53:23.819
Ela Law: No, no, I've got. I've got them on my screen. I'm just looking through them. And I'm like, Okay.

591
00:53:23.820 --> 00:53:24.590
Christine Chessman: It's like we.

592
00:53:24.590 --> 00:53:29.389
Ela Law: I think we covered quite a lot in conversation of the things that we wanted to ask. So.

593
00:53:29.390 --> 00:53:44.250
Christine Chessman: But it's just yeah tangents. I love a tangent. But, Nikki, thank you so much. We really appreciate you coming along and and being so open and honest and just telling us your experience. It really means a lot really does.

594
00:53:44.250 --> 00:53:45.040
Nicky Hallam: Thank you.

595
00:53:45.040 --> 00:53:45.970
Christine Chessman: Thank you.

596
00:53:45.970 --> 00:53:46.650
Nicky Hallam: Great.