Wegovy, Weight loss and Accepting Our Bodies

Trigger warning: We talk about weight, calories, wegovy and eating disorders in this episode. Please take care of yourselves and show discretion if any little ones are nearby.

Another episode in our YOUR Bodies series where we talk to YOU about your experience with dieting, movement and your body. This week we are chatting to Kate.

Kate is 46 years old and lives in Brighton. She is mum to a 10 year old girl, who is her inspiration for repairing her body image and relationship with food after a lifetime of diet culture. She is currently navigating intuitive eating in the face of medical diagnoses, which would otherwise have led her back to dieting. (This is in large part thanks to the information and support available in the Body Image Fitness community.)

We loved our conversation with Kate and really valued her sharing her experience with intuitive eating, body acceptance and navigating medical issues whilst staying true to her non-diet journey – and we believe you will find it a super interesting and helpful episode!

Please reach out if you would like some support with your relationship to food OR movement. Ela currently has limited spaces for Intuitive Eating coaching and if you'd like to reconnect with movement, contact Christine.

AND if you enjoyed this episode, please share and follow the 'Find Your Strong podcast' and if you have time, write us a short review. It would honestly mean the world. Love to you all, Ela & Christine x

Transcript

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Ela Law: Hi, everybody and welcome back to another episode of find your strong podcast

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Ela Law: we are very, very excited today to bring you another episode of our Mini series of your own body stories, and we have the wonderful Kate with us today who is happy to share some of her story in terms of body, image and relationship with food with us.

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Ela Law: Kate has also gone through some medical issues recently that have sort of challenged her relationship with food and her body somewhat. But we'll let her explain that in a little bit more detail later. So welcome, Kate, do you want to introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about where you live, who you are and what you do.

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Kate Ward: Yeah, cool. So I'm okay. I'm 46. I live in Brighton. I live with my husband and my 10 year old daughter.

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Kate Ward: I like kind of sewing, making clothes, cross, stitch, sort of loads of crafting stuff.

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Kate Ward: and and sort of reading and family time, and I've kind of got a real kind of mix of of a relationship with with exercise. But at the moment I'm kind of really enjoying body combat really enjoyed Damali's kettlebells that she did on body image fitness. And I'm kind of dabbling a little bit with some dancing, but I'm still a little bit self-conscious of it, even if I'm the only person in the room. But I'm kind of I'm challenging myself with that.

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Ela Law: I think that's awesome to just kind of give it a go and try it. And just for transparency sake, Kate is also somebody that Christine and I know through body, image fitness. The the platform that we we keep going on about, because it's just so wonderful, isn't it, Christine?

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Christine Chessman: Is and also you're making reference to Damali Fraser there, who's also been on the podcast so she was on the podcast a couple of months ago. She is fantastic. We love her.

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Christine Chessman: Yes, body image fitness is fantastic, but I'm also. I'm very happy that you like Kettlebells, Kit, cause I'm a bit of a Kettlebell obsessive.

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Christine Chessman: But yeah, are you still doing some kettlebells? Or how is that.

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Kate Ward: Yeah, I'm trying to kind of

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Kate Ward: still trying to work out exactly how I make my routine, and I find I find some things easier to fit in

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Kate Ward: than others. So I just kind of need to kind of get my head space a bit sorted. We're in the middle of some building work, having a garden room put in. So I'm hoping that that in part will become the gym space, and then that will help me to make make the space and the time for it.

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Kate Ward: Without it kind of being too much of an impact on the on family life.

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Christine Chessman: And how do you feel now? I mean sorry I'm launching in, Ella. How do you feel now with regard to movement and your relationship with movement. We can obviously come back to relationship with body and food. But

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Christine Chessman: specifically to movement. Is it something that you can? Now? Does it bring you joy do you feel connected to your body in in any way that's different than before? Kate.

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Kate Ward: Yeah, I now kind of.

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Kate Ward: I still feel like I've kind of finding the things that I enjoy doing and then kind of being able to sort of make progress with that, and feel stronger in my body, that that kind of always was something that brought me sort of a connection with my body when I was doing more kind of weighted stuff and feeling strong, that always helped, and it was always the cardio that I struggled with. And actually, now I've kind of

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Kate Ward: fit the cardio in, and I'm now trying to work out how to fit that kind of that kind of weighted piece in the resistance workout to try and kind of make that that better. So I've got like a wide range of movement. But yeah, I mean compared to you know where I was a long time ago, you know, sort of quite usual story of someone who struggled with their weight. That

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Kate Ward: movement is difficult, because you feel

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Kate Ward: you feel it's difficult to kind of be in a room with other people doing that. I do a lot of my stuff now on my own. But I actually don't think I would feel quite as self-conscious going into sort of a group environment as I once did.

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Kate Ward: So yeah, it's definitely changing. But I think I think that's a piece that I still feel like I've got the most work to do on.

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Ela Law: But it sounds like you have come a really long way in terms of your relationship with movement. So do you did you? Can you pinpoint a time when you thought actually, this isn't working for me anymore. And I need to find an alternative. And how that looked. And how did you find this non-diet approach to movement and to and to food as well.

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Kate Ward: So the non-diet piece is kind of with the movement has been sort of the relatively new piece, because it was always in my head that

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Kate Ward: you diet, you exercise because you're trying to shrink your body. And so you need to. And you need to go hard, and you need to do loads and and kind of changing that switch a little bit to kind of actually all movements great, and just do it doing as much as you can kind of find time to do in the way that you. You do it, and and kind of

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Kate Ward: getting into a routine of doing it because you like how it makes you feel rather than what it, what the resulting bit of that, or you know you're doing it because you're trying to improve your your heart health, or your bone density, or you know you're doing it for a specific other reason than shrinking your body. And that's kind of still kind of quite new to me. It's still kind of that. Some of those switches still kind of sometimes come on.

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Kate Ward: and then I kind of think, oh, well, I'm exercising. But hang on a minute. I don't need to, because I'm not trying to shrink my body. And then I'm like. And actually, there's all these other reasons why you're doing it. So it's kind of sometimes I just need to remind myself.

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Kate Ward: that actually, I always feel better when I've done it as well that even when I'm trying to motivate myself just before doing it, I don't really feel like it. It's like, well, remember how you felt last time when you did that, how did you feel afterwards? And they go? Okay, right? And once I've started, I'm absolutely fine. It's just sometimes that kind of initial, shall I? Can I? You know, do I feel like it? And also having giving myself the permission

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Kate Ward: that actually, sometimes I really don't feel like it. And that's okay as well.

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Kate Ward: So it's kind of still still, in that kind of early stages of it all. But but I'm getting, you know, getting better with it.

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Christine Chessman: It's so hard, isn't it? It's just so hard when you're trying to untangle weight, loss and exercise, because it's, you know, if you go on any social media ever. It is just conflict. It is just all about, you know. Lose weight, tone up. It's all of that language mostly aimed at women, mostly marketed to women. But if you look at kind of the long list of benefits of movement.

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Christine Chessman: I mean weight loss is not actually an outcome that I would ever guarantee. Because

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Christine Chessman: you can't. It's not a behavior you can. I could never guarantee somebody who works with me, even if I was a weight loss coach would lose weight.

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Christine Chessman: because that's not what movement is primarily for about, etc. So you've got heart health. As you're saying, you've got so many benefits like reducing stress. You've got blood pressure. It's good for so many different things, social connection. There's so many different things. That movement is amazing for. But weight loss is not one of them, and it's just, but it is the only one you see everywhere.

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Christine Chessman: And I had one client. I'm sorry I'm going to tell a little tiny story. I had one client. He came to me and she said, Look, I feel so much stronger in my body. I feel so much better. I've got much more energy than I used to. All my markers are better, but I haven't lost weight, so I'm going to go find a different coach.

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Christine Chessman: and that really smacked me in the face because I was like, that's really sad.

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Christine Chessman: because actually, the only thing it's sad and not not in a way that I would ever judge her, because that is the society we live in.

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Christine Chessman: That is

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Christine Chessman: all around us. It's the air we breathe, but it's so hard, Kit, to try and navigate. That, isn't it.

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Kate Ward: Yeah, absolutely.

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Kate Ward: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: Just.

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Ela Law: One thing that you just said is actually something that I've heard Christine say a few times that sometimes, when you, when you do exercise. It may not feel that great during the exercise, and that really resonated with me as well. Because sometimes when I move, I'm like, why the hell did I do that? What did I get up for this? And then afterwards? It feels

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Ela Law: amazing cause I feel like I've got more energy, and I feel stronger in the long run. And all of those things do you? Is is that something that you you find is is quite tricky? Or do you feel like. Actually, I can bring back that knowledge of. Actually, I know I'm doing this because I know it'll make me feel better. Is that is that becoming easier for you now that you you are sort of moving in a different way.

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Kate Ward: Yeah, definitely. And it's because I'm kind of trying a few different things and trying to find the things that I prefer doing. And so you know all the things that that I always hated doing. But I did, because, you know, you're supposed to do them, because that's what everybody says you're supposed to do, but you hate them, and you know you might even feel better after doing those things, even if you don't like them. But you still.

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Kate Ward: you know, if you can enjoy it while you're doing it as well and still get the benefits. Then, you know, that's just all for good, isn't it?

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Ela Law: Bonus.

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Ela Law: for sure, for sure.

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Christine Chessman: It's that kind of, though what you said, Kate. It's.

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Christine Chessman: you know. I don't feel like moving today, but it's it's also.

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Christine Chessman: you know, at what point is that? Okay, give yourself full permission to rest. But at what point is that? Well, actually, how would how do I want to feel today I want to feel energized. So maybe I'll try moving. It's so difficult to get to navigate your way through that piece.

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Christine Chessman: I say.

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Kate Ward: Kind of maybe finding that I've kind of been trying to experiment a little bit with maybe working out some more gentle movements to sort of these things say, well, I've done. I have done something I gave it, or actually, maybe that gentle movement is enough to kind of start and go. Actually.

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Kate Ward: after about 5 min, I feel a bit better. So actually, I might even be able to do the thing that I didn't really fancy doing 5 min ago, and sometimes that kind of you know, I think sometimes it's the it's still there's still like a mental blocker, sometimes of actually starting.

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Kate Ward: And so that's the piece that I know that I now need to kind of

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Kate Ward: kind of unpack what that

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Kate Ward: what that is, and why, that's still a blocker, because there's got to be a reason. I just have to find out what it is. And then I can start working on. How do I? How do I change that response?

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Kate Ward: But I kind of from all the other work that I've done around things. I eventually find out what that switch is.

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Kate Ward: and then I know what to do with it, but it's that's still the one that's still a little bit sticky.

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Christine Chessman: And can you be compassionate with yourself around that because it takes an awful long time?

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Christine Chessman: Take care.

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Kate Ward: Yeah, I've got a lot better at that. Actually, I think. You know, my inner voice is a is a lot kind of less harsh than it than it has been. You know it's been a reasonably long kind of journey through this for me, so I've I've kind of.

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Kate Ward: you know, been at varying points over, you know, over a long period of time trying to unpack this and and all that kind of stuff. And I'm actually now.

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Kate Ward: I very rarely

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Kate Ward: kind of have the same issues around that kind of negative in a voice, or the something happens. And then that's ruined the whole day, and all of that kind of thing. It doesn't.

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Kate Ward: It doesn't linger so much anymore. I don't have that sort of same

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Kate Ward: ongoing kind of keep coming back and kind of almost picking at the scab to try and

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Kate Ward: to try and kind of sabotage. I've kind of noticed that I've stopped doing that.

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Ela Law: That's amazing. That's it's it's a lot of work, isn't it, to to unravel all of the years and years of you know, almost brainwashing that diet culture has done to us. Can you share with us how and so, maybe, who was the the first? st

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Ela Law: What was the 1st thing that you explored when you kind of moved away from the diet culture, approach to food and fitness. Was there a particular

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Ela Law: person that you started following on social media. Was there someone that had a message that resonated more with you? Or did you sort of try and do it on your own, and and step away from all of that.

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Kate Ward: So it kind of was a was a bit of a changing. So after kind of you know, the years and years of all the usual, you know various diet clubs, and all of the other bits and pieces of

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Kate Ward: all of that, you know the little 2 week here and there, and and you know, not eating carbs for 2 weeks, and and near enough fainting everywhere ago, because I was trying to do 7 hard classes a week with no carbs, and wondering then why I had a massive headache. You know, all of that kind of weird stuff.

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Ela Law: That one.

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Kate Ward: But yeah, I think the the kind of the 1st sort of real trigger was my daughter being born. That was just like.

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Kate Ward: I don't want to teach her what I've done. And at that point I didn't really know

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Kate Ward: how not to do that, but I kind of knew that I wanted to. So that's kind of where I started to kind of

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Kate Ward: think a bit about well, how do I do? I mean, when she was very little. I went back to to diet clubs because I was trying to get fit and healthy, and that was the only way that I knew

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Kate Ward: that that any of those things existed. I didn't even know anything at all about the fact that there was anything other than that.

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Kate Ward: Yeah, that's all I'd ever known. I then sort of came across a group on on Facebook that were kind of

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Kate Ward: you know they were a a diet that's not a diet.

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Kate Ward: I now recognize that that's what they were, but to me it would. At that point it was a new, a new point of view. There were 2 people.

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Kate Ward: One was kind of very much on the kind of the food and the exercise side, and the other one was she was a life coach, and so she did a lot of stuff around body, image, and and all of that. So that did kind of start me off onto that route of. There is a different way of doing this, and together they were. They worked okay for me.

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Kate Ward: but in terms of I would never have gone and followed the the person who was the diet and fitness person.

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Kate Ward: because

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Kate Ward: I didn't really feel a connection to her.

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Christine Chessman: What?

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Kate Ward: The lady who was the the life coach. She looked like me. She behaved like me, she thought, you know, and she so I kind of felt more of an affinity to her, so I kind of joined in for that purpose rather than the other than the diet and fitness side, and I kind of didn't, really. I kind of dabbled on that for a little bit and didn't really kind of get too involved in it. What was really interested in was the was the life coaching staff.

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Kate Ward: But I did kind of then get kind of pulled into the whole kind of thing with both of them. I did lose weight with them. I did change the way that I was eating in.

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Kate Ward: you know, you know, to an extent, but it was still kind of really restriction. As obviously I now know. I kind of thought I was changing my eating habits at the time. But when I look back I was still. It was just another diet.

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Kate Ward: and it

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Kate Ward: was

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Kate Ward: kind of around that sort of time that I was kind of exploring the idea that I don't want to keep going on this cycle.

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Kate Ward: I want to do something, and then I want to stop. And I want to just change my relationship with food. So that was the bit that kind of really started to resonate was, I want to get off this train because I've had enough of it. I don't want to keep doing this. I don't want to.

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Kate Ward: I don't want to teach my daughter any of this stuff. I want her to just be able to eat normally like like anybody else, like somebody who's never had a problem with food. I just want her to learn a nice way of of living and just be normal.

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Kate Ward: whatever that was. But I just again I didn't really know what it was, but they kind of then as a partnership, they kind of dissolved. It didn't really work out with them. They they wanted 2 different things. They both split up. They carried on one carried on doing the life coaching. One went mega into the diet and fitness stuff.

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Kate Ward: but because I'd lost quite a lot with them, I became a bit of a

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Kate Ward: that they used to kind of reel me out as a bit of a poster child was just kind of like, you know. Look how great look, how how well she's done, and how much her body shrunk, and all of that which

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Kate Ward: for me

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Kate Ward: was a big was a boost because it was an acceptance. It was being part of a club. It was being, you know, I was being.

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Kate Ward: You know, I was doing the right thing. I felt like I was doing the right thing. There were people praising me for what I'd done, and I was. You know that then there were people who kind of going. You know you're an inspiration, and you know, feeling part of a group and a club. And it it kind of got a bit, you know. It kind of it really took over a lot, and it became a real obsession or piece of you know I was then, you know, talking to other people about what I'd done and all of that. And it became

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Kate Ward: it became a bit of a

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Kate Ward: bit of of I change all this stuff. But actually, really

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Kate Ward: there. I was kind of really just chasing this acceptance that I didn't have for myself.

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Kate Ward: and and that was a that was kind of a point where it really stuck with me. And the the kind of the final kind of trigger with with working with them at all. Was I really hit a bit of a wall with it.

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Kate Ward: I struggled. The sabotage thing came back in. There was something I knew it wasn't quite sitting right with me, and I just couldn't work out. Why, and I I kind of got to a point I'd kind of put a thing on the thing. Of how do I know

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Kate Ward: when I can stop

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Kate Ward: with this. How do I know when I've done enough, when I'm when I'm when I you know, when I'm fixed, when I'm where I need to be. How? How do I know?

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Kate Ward: Because I knew from having been reasonably successful with diet things in the past, and and be getting down to a goal weight as they set, and being really tiny, I mean, I look back at pictures of me then, and I look terrible. I look really ill. It's just it's too small for me. But

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Kate Ward: I I was like I had loads of extra skin at that point, and I was like. I don't want to go back to that, because that felt worse than being kind of somewhere in the middle where I had body. That was.

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Kate Ward: that was, you know, it was working really well. It was. I felt fit. I felt healthy, you know. Clothes fitted nicely. I felt nice, but also my body was, you know, that had the right amount of fat on it, so that my skin fitted, and I kind of didn't want to go beyond that. And I was quite kind of conscious of that, and it was sort of niggling in my head, and I kind of said, How do I know when I can stop them, because I don't want to end up with all like extra skin.

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Kate Ward: And

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Kate Ward: by this point most of the people that were left on the program

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Kate Ward: were people who hadn't really ever been

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Kate Ward: in a situation like mine. They hadn't been struggling with their weight their whole life. They were people who'd maybe put on half a stone, and they felt bad, and they wanted to lose it. And so in my head they they didn't really, you know, they didn't have all that stuff to unpack, and they they didn't really understand where I was coming from, and I didn't really understand where they were coming from, because I looked at their bodies and were like, Well, you know, you look fine to me.

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Kate Ward: Yeah, but you know, obviously, everyone's going through their own struggles and and their own viewpoints of how they feel about their bodies. And that's but again, I wasn't really in a position to kind of really

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Kate Ward: understand that either. So we kind of didn't really kind of gel in that situation. And I kind of got a comment back from someone who, yeah, again, to my kind of, you know, viewpoint. She looked absolutely fabulous, and she she was like, Oh, we've all got. We've all got horrible, wobbly bits that we don't like, and I was just like, yeah, but

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Kate Ward: not to the same extent as as me. And you just didn't get it. And I I kind of then made a contact with with the person, and sort of said, Yeah, this is how I'm feeling. I'm thinking that this just isn't a fit for me anymore. And

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Kate Ward: the way she turned it round was, well, you've obviously got more problems than I can fix for you. You know you need more help than I can give you.

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Kate Ward: And at that point, having been someone that she had used for her marketing, she'd used for all sorts of things, you know. She she had my photos all over space, all over her social media everywhere. And then she just went, oh, I'm done with you now, because

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Kate Ward: you're not. You're not following things as I want you to, and you're not shrinking your body to the point that I think you could have done, and that and then I was like, and I drew a massive line on it, and I had a real kind of

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Kate Ward: a moment, for you know, quite, quite a maybe a year.

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Kate Ward: where I was just like, I don't. I don't know what to do anymore. I don't know. I don't don't know who I am anymore. I don't know what I'm doing. I've lost, you know. I thought I was doing well, but and I thought I was kind of part of this. I thought I'd found a group of people who were kind of helping me. And then, all of a sudden, no, that's it. We're not interested now because you're not.

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Kate Ward: You're not doing what we wanted you to do.

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Ela Law: You weren't performing.

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Kate Ward: Yeah. And then. So that was kind of you know, I kind of struggled for for a long time on that

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Kate Ward: and

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Kate Ward: happens like. I can't even remember exactly how. But it happened across an American lady called Brianne Hull.

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Kate Ward: and she was telling a story about how she had eaten an entire wedding cake.

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Christine Chessman: Because.

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Kate Ward: She just could not stop herself from doing that.

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Kate Ward: you know. In fact, she some of it she'd taken out of the bin, and then a unit. She was that kind of into the thing that she needed to do that

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Kate Ward: and she started talking about

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Kate Ward: that.

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Kate Ward: the binge restrict shame cycle.

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Kate Ward: and actually where diets go is they?

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Kate Ward: They? They sort of say to you, well, in order to change the cycle, you have to, you know, you binge, and then you restrict, and that that's kind of how it works. We said. The bit that you have to take out of the cycle

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Kate Ward: is, if you take the shame bit out.

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Kate Ward: then the the restrict and the binging does don't necessarily have that link anymore.

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Kate Ward: because you can separate them, because it's the shame

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Kate Ward: that keeps you in the cycle. Not necessarily

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Kate Ward: the other things, because it's your brain that's kind of going. Well.

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Kate Ward: I've done that. That was awful, you know I've eaten an entire cake. I feel like rubbish. Well, now, I can't eat for a week, because of all that I've done. And he said, actually, if you go all right, I've eaten an entire wedding cake.

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Kate Ward: not entirely sure why I further need to do that. Why don't? Why don't I try and spend a bit time being a bit curious about

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Kate Ward: why that happened

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Kate Ward: and then go right? Okay. I've done that. I've drawn a line under it. What next?

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Ela Law: And that.

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Kate Ward: With the kind of 1st step of

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Kate Ward: actually there might be another way.

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Kate Ward: and that that was kind of 1st kind of principles of of me getting onto

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Kate Ward: the way of getting out of that cycle.

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Kate Ward: because otherwise I was just going to keep doing this forever, even all the things that you know, diets that aren't diets, and all of that.

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Kate Ward: I was never going to break free with it until I made

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Kate Ward: friends with the fact that you have to stop

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Kate Ward: the shame part.

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Christine Chessman: I think that is the absolute, the key to it all, and I think the whole language around dieting is shame and failing. You fail a diet.

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Christine Chessman: and it's the whole. If you restrict. If you restrict your food to a certain, your body will naturally, as soon as you give it a chance to eat. You're going to. Biologically, you're going to have this hunger, and you're going to be ravenous. Of course you are, because your body's like being in starvation mode. So it now needs the calories in case it goes back into starvation mode, and we end up blaming ourselves

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Christine Chessman: because of a biological response

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Christine Chessman: to starvation and restriction. And it's such a marketing tool for diet companies, isn't it?

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Christine Chessman: You know, lifelong memberships and.

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Kate Ward: And it's always it's it's always completely down to them when it works and when it doesn't, it's down to you.

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Kate Ward: And that's always the yeah. And even E, even when you kind of you know all the other things it's like, well, it's your fault. It didn't work because you didn't do it properly.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Kate Ward: It wasn't till much, much later that I kind of

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Kate Ward: started to see that. Actually, that that wasn't the case at all. And that's not

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Kate Ward: how you know, and that's not how it is. And

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Kate Ward: you know there are times now where I feel really.

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Kate Ward: but I do feel quite angry

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Kate Ward: that I've been duped for. So you know, I was duped for so long

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Kate Ward: into this cycle.

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Kate Ward: And actually some of the things that I'm now experiencing. Actually, I think you know, I can now kind of see

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Kate Ward: that those things cause where I am and not the other way around.

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Kate Ward: It's yeah, there's definitely a kind of a

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Kate Ward: a feeling of

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Kate Ward: yeah, these dark companies have just got so much answer for it's it's just, you know. I'd wipe them all off the face of the earth. If I could.

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Ela Law: Okay, they say.

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Christine Chessman: Would you take a drug that has a 98% failure rate.

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Christine Chessman: would you? No, you would never be.

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Ela Law: We'll try that.

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Christine Chessman: But that's that's what diet companies, you know. They don't. Diet simply do not work

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Christine Chessman: restricting your body for a long term. Your body will. It's very smart, it will go. No, no, no, I need the food, you know, and it's just when you think about it in those terms. It really hits you, doesn't it? In a different way?

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Ela Law: Yeah, but it's good. It's good to hear that it makes you angry, because with that anger I think that's a positive thing, because there's another thing that we're told not to be. Don't be angry. Why are you so angry? But I think we need to get angry, because if we get collectively angry at this stuff that's being sold to us. That is literally not working for anybody, really, or most people. I what I found really interesting about what you shared with us. There, Kate, is the.

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Ela Law: It came out quite strongly that there was that

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Ela Law: that one thing that someone said, just like it can happen when when you're younger, and that one thing someone says that puts you on the diet track that makes you unhappy with your body that makes you want to fix your body. It can also happen the other way, that one thing, that someone, that one example of this person eating the whole wedding cake and saying, we need to take the shame out of it to make the restrict binge cycle not function properly.

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Ela Law: So I found that really powerful to listen to and to hear, because very often we go on about the things from childhood that are ingrained in our heads. And I can probably tell you that one thing for each of my clients where things started to go pear-shaped because of someone saying something to them and that stuck in their heads.

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Ela Law: So it's just really encouraging to hear that that can happen for positive reason as well, and especially sort of going into

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Ela Law: when we look at our relationship with children, whether that's our children, our own children. So all 3 of us have daughters. So I think we've got vested interest in making sure that history does not repeat itself with them. But also, if anyone who's listening, who works with children who has nieces and nephews or grandchildren, or has children around them, how important it is to have that positive feedback, not just the negative. Oh, should you be eating

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Ela Law: that, or you put on some weight all of that nonsense, maybe, that you can be that one person that says the positive thing

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Ela Law: that says the thing about taking the shame away that says the thing about all bodies fit anything like that. So I thought that was really powerful to hear, and I hadn't really. I'm just making it up as I go along, can you tell, but I'm just. I'm just sort of thinking aloud. And I thought that was just a really interesting

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Ela Law: point to here for me.

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Christine Chessman: You know, and it's.

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Kate Ward: Yeah, because it.

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Christine Chessman: I really like the Kim always says so. Kim, who runs body image fitness, always says I'm in a larger body now because of diet culture, and I love that. It's such a simple thing to say. But

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Christine Chessman: it's that's a simple fact, you know she is, because every time you go on a diet. Then obviously your metabolism slows because it has to, but to keep you alive and to survive. And then you might put on a little bit more weight the next time, because your body's desperately trying to keep you alive and well and safe, and it's.

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Christine Chessman: you know, rather than it being oh, it's the the weight loss, the answer to weight loss. It's actually the opposite, in many cases, you know, and that's again never talked about. But another thing that's really weighing heavily on me is the fact. The thin, privilege side of things.

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Christine Chessman: the genetically thin diet and fitness coach sort of assuming that you should be in a body that's like hers as opposed to like yours. And I think that is

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Christine Chessman: throughout the diet and fitness industry. It's like we, the genetically thin, and, you know, look a certain way, fitness instructors, saying, you can look like me if you do this.

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Christine Chessman: They can't. If they can't look like you. Their bodies are not your body so stop that that annoys the oh, I can't tell you how much that annoys me, because and that's something I would never, ever say to somebody, why would don't choose your fitness, instructor, based on what you want your body to look like fitness, instructor, based on what rapport you have with them, and how they make you feel when you're moving.

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Kate Ward: Yes.

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Christine Chessman: And

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Christine Chessman: but sorry I just had to bring that up, because it really does anger me a lot.

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Christine Chessman: Sorry.

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Kate Ward: I kind of then sort of started to to do a little bit of work with her. I actually did a kind of a 30 day thing with her, and

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Kate Ward: there was some very uncomfortable moments, because basically, she'd kind of written this program around what

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Kate Ward: you know, she'd done her own work, and she'd done it on her own because there was nothing else like it. So it was just kind of how she'd unpacked all of her

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Kate Ward: baggage. Really all the stuff that was in her head, and how she'd kind of worked out what to do about it all, and she was just kind of trying to share it. Really? And you know it was. It was uncomfortable, you know. It was kind of going through a lot of

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Kate Ward: stuff that I'd hidden stuff that was quite, you know, quite deep. And a realization that

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Kate Ward: you know my relationship with food was a lot around

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Kate Ward: using food to cover up, not having to feel anything.

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Kate Ward: I did a lot of that. You know. It's not just not just emotional eating, but actually eating, to to be able to push that stuff right the way down, so that you don't have to let it out the box at all.

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Kate Ward: and so, and then you can blame

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Kate Ward: the fact that I could then blame the fact that my body was larger on all of that. And that's why I didn't want to do anything, and that's why, you know, and because then I didn't have to face any of this stuff that I've been hiding in this box. And so I had to, kind of, you know, start lifting the lid, you know tiny bits at a time and letting tiny little bits out and then going right. I can't. I can't deal with this anymore. I've got a I've got to pack it for a bit.

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Kate Ward: I've got to kind of let that settle, and then I can open it a little bit more. So what should have been like a 30 day thing took, you know, months instead, because I couldn't

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Kate Ward: emotionally, I couldn't handle all of that at once. I had to do it in tiny, tiny pieces, and you know I'm still working on some of that. But it's largely it's largely come out. And after that I did some some work with them

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Kate Ward: with the kind of a local body image coach.

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Kate Ward: And it was it was her that kind of brought me to to body, image fitness, and to Ella and kind of where I kind of then was able to kind of, you know. Keep unpacking that a little bit more.

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Kate Ward: But yeah, that kind of the the work with body image coach I was. It was supposed to be a group session, because I was like, I just want to do some stuff with some people who know what I'm what what I'm you know, understand what I'm talking about

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Kate Ward: with people who.

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Kate Ward: you know aren't just.

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Kate Ward: you know, trying to shrink their bodies a tiny bit, because that's what you know. That's what society expects of them. I want people who really understand what it's like to be in a bigger body. And

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Kate Ward: and just, you know, and live like that.

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Kate Ward: and just be you there, and to understand what that whole journey feels like, because

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Kate Ward: I didn't really have any friends who were kind of like that, or and so I didn't really kind of have anyone else to talk to. And so I kind of thought, well, I'll join this group thing. As it turned out, nobody else joined up that time, and so it ended up being a 1 to one. And so it was then very personal and very, you know, very. You know, there was a lot of there were a lot of tears. There was a lot of stuff that came out. And

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Kate Ward: you know, actually, I probably went into a lot more depth than I may well have done in a group situation. So you know, these things happen for

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Kate Ward: for a reason. But you know that was kind of a lot of my kind of healing.

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Kate Ward: the process. And that's sort of what brought me then into sort of.

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Kate Ward: you know, the widest sort of thing of of intuitive eating, and really starting to change

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Kate Ward: that relationship with food, because it was a I kind of knew I I knew I'd wanted to do something, but I still up until that point I still didn't really know what that was.

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Kate Ward: And then that's kind of you know. I've done a bit of kind of looking up around in terms of using before.

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Kate Ward: I joined the trust. Your choices? You know. Obviously, you remember, I'd kind of been a bit away on that journey before we 1st sort of talked. Yeah.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Kate Ward: But it, you know, just being able to kind of

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Kate Ward: kind of go through that and and think more deeply about

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Kate Ward: yeah, all of those things, and and why

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Kate Ward: your body does what it does, and the you know, and the weight gain after restriction is, you know, coming from the fact that actually your body is just better than most at looking after itself and surviving.

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Kate Ward: You know that's the that's the thing to take away is, you know.

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Kate Ward: that you know it's trying to. Your body's just trying to protect you all of the little things, all, even all the self-sabotage things that come through. That's your body. Just kind of saying to you. You know

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Kate Ward: I'm doing this because this isn't right for you.

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Kate Ward: and I'm trying to change.

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Christine Chessman: Yes.

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Kate Ward: I'm trying to change that. I'm trying to stop you going too far, and that's why it keeps knocking on the door at you and that self sabotage is not.

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Kate Ward: It's, you know, the realization that that isn't your lack of willpower or your lack of ability to do anything about. It's your body going right? That's enough. Now.

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Kate Ward: You're taking this too far.

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Kate Ward: You need. You need to understand that there's certain things that I need, and you're not listening to me. And so it really it then just kind of gets to a point where it just goes. Don't, that's it. I'm not letting you do that anymore. But it comes and it it will come on so quickly because you're not listening.

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Kate Ward: It's once you kind of get more into that sort of intuitive eating kind of idea. And you start to listen to what your body said, Yeah, yeah, there were still times when you kind of go. Actually, yeah, I did have that. Did I really need to have quite as much of that as that. By the end of it. Was I really enjoying it? Probably not. If I'd have had half of it.

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Kate Ward: would I have enjoyed have had the same amount of enjoyment from eating all of it. Yeah, probably. And so maybe next time just need to be a little bit more tuned in and go right? That's it. Yeah, I've had enough of that now

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Kate Ward: and and so, and start listening. Because when you start listening, it doesn't have to kind of not quite so hard to get your attention.

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Ela Law: That's such a good point. I love that so much the listening and tuning in. And I think that's the thing that is probably quite challenging. But as you get better and better, and it becomes

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Ela Law: less of a thing and more second second nature, almost. I absolutely. I always really really loved you on the intuitive eating course, because you had such valuable points to make, and so much so many helpful things for the other participants who may not have been as far as you on on their own exploration of intuitive eating. It was always really

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Ela Law: wonderful to hear you share what you've learned.

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Ela Law: you know when you were exploring it, but also advocating for yourself. So

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Ela Law: If you don't mind me moving into into that sort of the advocacy point of view. I remember. I hope you don't mind me sharing this, that in one of our final sessions you mentioned that you were asked to to talk to others about intuitive eating, and you felt like you were far enough in your journey to actually take that on. Because when you're very early on in making peace with your body

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Ela Law: and peace with food. It can feel a bit overwhelming to talk to others about it, because you feel like oh, I don't know it myself. I'm just still learning about it myself, but I think you took that challenge on, and you you did a little, a little talk at work, and then subsequently.

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Ela Law: in terms of your health, you have to do a lot of advocating for yourself in front of healthcare professionals. Do you? Do you mind sharing a little bit about those things.

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Kate Ward: No. So yeah. So I kind of yeah, started off with that kind of little talk at work. And you know, there's a kind of few 100 people on the course. It was quite daunting.

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Ela Law: Same thing.

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Kate Ward: You know, got, you know it kind of hit, and I wasn't expecting it to kind of resonate with a lot of people, because, you know, you have to be in the right space for that stuff to start resonating. So I was kind of putting a little bit out there and just kind of, you know, just leaving a few things there and going, you know. If you want to talk about it, then you know, if any of this resonates. Come and talk to me.

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Kate Ward: And a couple of people have, and you know most people didn't. And you know that's fine, you know, because not. Everybody has to come to these things in their own their own time.

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Kate Ward: But yeah, what kind of happened off the the back of that? So this was in our our menopause call. So this is kind of our kind of perimenopause through menopause. It's a big thing. That was set up by a couple of people that that I work with, and it's now kind of grown to like 300 and something people on this call, and even kind of, you know.

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Kate Ward: people whose wives are going through it. So you know, their husbands have joined, and they just want to find out more, so that they can learn how to support. So this is their kind of so, as a result of kind of joining that group, I've realized sort of quite how far my through my perimenopausal sort of journey that I was and so we thought, it's probably time to now go and sort of have a chat with the doctor, and kind of see what I can. You know what I can do about about some of these symptoms that I was sort of feeling.

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Kate Ward: and

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Kate Ward: they then did obviously load of blood tests and bits and pieces like that. Got put onto Hrt 1st kind of

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Kate Ward: review.

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Kate Ward: I took my blood pressure, and it was quite high.

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Kate Ward: And so then they they sort of had to then put me onto blood pressure medication.

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Kate Ward: And then, as a result of being on that medication. Then, 3 months later, I had to have a whole bunch more blood tests. And then that was when they kind of noticed that the blood sugar was a bit high.

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Kate Ward: so I was then kind of pre diabetes, levels of blood sugar

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Kate Ward: having kind of been, you know around in the sort of body image fitness.

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Kate Ward: You know, I was just like, yeah, pre diabetes. Whatever you know, you know, it's not real. It's not a real thing. I'm just gonna you know, I'm just gonna carry on doing what I'm doing. You know, I'm not going to get drawn into your kind of Prediabetes conversation.

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Kate Ward: which was fine until the next time they did the the result. It then went just over the limit.

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Kate Ward: And so then it wasn't pre diabetes anymore. It was diabetes, and then they were kind of like. Then down on me like a ton of bricks and and I, you know, to be fair. I probably had been a little bit blase with it, because I've been like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever it's not, it's not a thing you're just, you know, you're just trying to fat shame me, and I'm not even. I'm not even open for that. I'm not even gonna even think about it.

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Kate Ward: you know. Possibly I probably should have had a little bit of a thought about it. But you know, when it hit, I was like, Okay, I don't want this I don't want.

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Kate Ward: I don't want to be on diabetes medication. I don't want to deal with that, so I need to work out how I deal with it.

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Kate Ward: I was reasonably confident that actually I was probably doing what I was doing was probably making a difference, anyway. You know, I know I was already noticing from.

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Kate Ward: you know, really getting into the intuitive and really kind of being consistent with listening to my body, that you know a lot of the sugary stuff that I would have been going to a lot

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Kate Ward: previously

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Kate Ward: just didn't have that pull for me anymore. And I knew I was kind of listening more to what my body

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Kate Ward: needed to eat. You know where where it was feeling full, and you know there was food that was being left on plate, because, you know, I didn't need it. And so that was fine. So I knew that I was kind of you know I was pretty confident that what I was doing was gonna make it was going to move the dial anyway. But I was still a little bit like, okay. And so for one of the 1st things he sort of said was, Well, you know you can reverse it, but

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Kate Ward: you know, and there's this book that I can recommend.

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Kate Ward: So I was like, Okay, well, I'll you know, I'll read your book.

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Kate Ward: But then he kind of said, You know, basically the the premise of it is

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Kate Ward: you, you need to lose like 10%, your body weight.

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Kate Ward: because that's what makes a difference.

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Kate Ward: And I was like, well, I don't think that's the bit. That makes the difference. You know. What's the behavior? So I said to him, Okay, so I said, What's the behaviors

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Kate Ward: that I have to change? What? What do I have to do? Different? Because if I was sitting here

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Kate Ward: in and

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Kate Ward: I was, you know, my, my Bmi was in the normal range.

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Kate Ward: What advice. Would you be giving me then? Because you wouldn't be telling me to lose 10% of my, there was a

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Kate Ward: I think actually, it was one that you shared. Ella was about the the an article around

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Kate Ward: this kind of magic. 10% of your body weight. And then where does it stop? You know, because 10% of that is like, you know, if you go from here to there, and you lost 10%. And if this person who's already 10% lighter than that goes in. They tell them to lose 10%. And you know, where does it stop?

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Ela Law: Stop. Yeah, yeah. And it's about the meaningful.

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Kate Ward: Yeah. So I kind of had that in my head going. Well, it can't be that bit. But you know there probably is something in the behavioral piece around it all.

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Kate Ward: So anyway, I got I got the book, you know. I thought I'll show Willing. I'll get the book. I've started to read the book.

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Kate Ward: and there was just bits in there, and I was just like, this is rubbish. This is utter lies. It was kind of. There was an example that I that I read, and it was about 2 people and 1 1 person spent 6 h gardening because they enjoyed the gardening, and and you know, and they they burnt so many calories while they were doing the gardening. And then this other person he went and played squash.

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Kate Ward: and he didn't really like playing squash, but he was trying to lose weight. So he, you know. So afterwards, on the way home, he then had a snack, you know. And so his net calorie deficit was lower than the person who'd done the gardening.

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Kate Ward: And I was like, Well, okay.

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Kate Ward: yes, in terms of calories, in calories out that you know that makes sense. But I, when I next spoke to him and I said to him about the example, and I said, what about a 3rd option?

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Kate Ward: I said, what about the guy that went and did the squash? Maybe he likes playing squash.

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Kate Ward: and so, maybe because he likes playing squash. He doesn't have a snack to reward himself for doing squash on the way home, because he quite liked the squash. He enjoyed it. He felt good after it. And so he didn't feel like he needed to give himself a reward for doing something he didn't like doing.

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Kate Ward: because that's what you know. And so actually he did the squash. He's got some heart benefit from it, because it was, you know, it was a cardio.

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Kate Ward: And so actually both of them have achieved things in a different way. But they actually just did the movement that they enjoyed and didn't feel the need to then reward themselves with food afterwards because they weren't forcing themselves to do stuff they didn't want to do.

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Ela Law: What did he say about that.

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Kate Ward: It was like.

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Kate Ward: Yeah, okay, what's your point? So I was like, so then I was kind of like, yes, I'm going to kind of keep picking apart so. And but he kind of said, You know, we're gonna need to kind of review all the stuff. And I was like, Okay, I was like, right? So what I want you to do is, I said. I don't want the

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Kate Ward: a dominant diagnosis on my record.

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Kate Ward: I want you to give me 3 months.

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Kate Ward: and I'm going to carry on doing what I'm going to do.

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Kate Ward: and we'll have a look at it in 3 months. And he was like, Okay, I was like, Oh, you know, he said, okay, I'll go without. Let's let's see how you go.

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Kate Ward: From that point I was. I then had my health check. It was a baby, so I had my health check with them, and they did my blood sugars, and I brought them down by 5 points to back into.

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Kate Ward: and the doctor that I saw there, you know he'd never seen me before. He didn't know anything about any of my story.

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Kate Ward: But

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Kate Ward: he said, Oh, you know that because I'd put into the my pre questionnaire what they were the last time that I'd had them checked.

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Kate Ward: So he was like, Wow, that's different, he said. How long did it take you to get it from, you know, from 49 down to 44,

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Kate Ward: and I said, 3 months.

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Kate Ward: and he was like, what?

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Kate Ward: So? How? How did you do that in 3 months? What did you did you do? Some kind of like massive crashed out, and I went. No.

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Kate Ward: and I told him exactly what I'd done. I talked to him about intuitive eating. I talked to him about

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Kate Ward: yeah, all of the things that I all the things I changed the fact that I was kind of. You know I wasn't dying at all. I wasn't paying any attention to what they they weighed me as part of that as much as I kind of was like. Well, I don't really want you to that they did and it, you know, I had lost. But it, you know. That was beside the point as far as I was concerned. But

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Kate Ward: all of those other markers had moved. My cholesterol had gone down by more than 25%, and all I had been doing was listening to my body and just

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Kate Ward: eating as much as I needed to eat.

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Kate Ward: and you know, not feeling that

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Kate Ward: I had to finish everything that was on my plate because I dished it up.

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Kate Ward: and you know, if I fancied a bit of chocolate then I had a bit of chocolate, and if I didn't, then I didn't, and you know that was all. I did differently.

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Kate Ward: And it was, you know, I changed all of those markers, and I wasn't doing anything differently to what I had been doing.

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Kate Ward: And so then.

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Ela Law: Listening more like listening more to being more in tune with

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Ela Law: with with what felt good in your body. And I think I think that is, that is a really sort of powerful bit of evidence, for how important in being intuitive with your body can be, I mean, Christine would probably agree in terms of movement. Once you

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Ela Law: understand how your body feels when you when you move and and listen to it, and rest when you need to, and move when you need to. It's it's all. It's all part of it, isn't it? It all helps us to actually do right by our bodies and do the things

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Ela Law: that that our body actually wants us to do.

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Kate Ward: And I've been doing a bit of kind of looking into

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Kate Ward: insulin resistance.

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Kate Ward: And I mean, it's it's an absolute minefield. But it's incredibly interesting.

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Kate Ward: because

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Kate Ward: the

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Kate Ward: the way that they really describe

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Kate Ward: the way that insulin resistance occurs, it's when you

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Kate Ward: kind of over when you kind of overstimulate all of the the cells and all of the. So so your body then needs to produce more insulin, and then.

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Kate Ward: because it hasn't then got anywhere for it to go. It then ends up going and putting, putting it into your fat cells

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Kate Ward: and and so, and when those are all fill up, then it starts with the ones under your skin first, st and then it starts with the ones around your organs, and it's the ones around your organs that are. Then where it starts to really kind of impact your ability to kind of change it.

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Kate Ward: And the only way to

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Kate Ward: really tackle insulin resistance is you've got to back it out the same way that it got there. But the way that it got there is

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Kate Ward: from binging after a restrict cycle.

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Kate Ward: So if you can stop the restriction and stop the binging.

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Kate Ward: Eventually your body will just kind of then empty that stuff out because it's going okay. Well, I'll use that bit now, because, yeah, you know, I don't. I don't need to hold on to it, because I trust now that you're gonna I don't need to hold on to this because you're fueling me enough, and I'm going to trust you.

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Kate Ward: Yeah, you're listening to me now, so I'm going to let some of that go.

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Kate Ward: and it kind of only keeps putting it there when it thinks that you're you're not listening.

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Ela Law: But there's.

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Kate Ward: So some elements around the again, the around perimenopause, because you're

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Kate Ward: because your Oestrogen goes down your body, then stores the fat

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Kate Ward: to kind of pull oestrogen from your fat cells as well. And so both of those things combined

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Kate Ward: is why actually type d diabetes.

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Kate Ward: So for

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Kate Ward: diagnosis happens quite frequently in women

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Kate Ward: of that sort of age, and nobody nobody talks about that.

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Kate Ward: Nobody talks about. Actually, it's not your fault. This is your body doing what it does naturally actually putting on a little bit of weight towards menopause and beyond, because

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Kate Ward: your body's also trying to protect you from the fact that you know when you when you get older. If you're if you've got a little bit more fat on you, you're less likely to break a bone. You're also, you know

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Kate Ward: if you have an illness, and so you can't eat for a while. You've got fat stores for your body to keep itself going. All of those things is what your body is doing naturally. And that's why. Obviously, yeah, it is a big thing for women that they worry that as soon as they get into menopause perimenopause that they put on fat, and they then become unhappy with

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Kate Ward: the way that they feel.

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Kate Ward: But it's all your body preparing you to actually live as long a life as it can give you, and you kind of have to give it the trust

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Kate Ward: to let it help you do what it needs to do. And that's.

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Christine Chessman: It's a very similar thing to puberty as well, so puberty and menopause. The body is naturally going to add a little bit of wit to, because your body needs it to grow. And it's just it's protective and menopause. It is protective. And yet I get

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Christine Chessman: 2,000 emails every week about Meno Belly, and how I just need to eat less and move more, to stop myself putting on weight and menopause. And it is like, stop it, stop it. And it's kids who are going into puberty that the age, the kind of the average age of kids kind of getting eating disorders, especially anorexia, are those about to head into puberty whose bodies are changing naturally because they need to change.

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Christine Chessman: And they're they're kind of seeing this and feeling shame around it. And it's obviously there's so many

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Christine Chessman: reasons that people would would go into an eating disorder. Not that doesn't. That's not the cause of all of it, but it's a huge contributing factor.

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Ela Law: Hmm, bye.

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Christine Chessman: Is, you know you bring up so many amazing points, Kate, that I can't tell you this. This has been a fantastic chat, Ella, hasn't it?

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Ela Law: Yeah, it's been so so helpful. And I think I think this is

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Ela Law: this is the one of the reasons we've decided to do this body stories, because I think this will resonate with a lot of people. So thank you so so much for sharing all of that with us and the listeners. Today. I think it's been really, really valuable. I've scribbled down lots of notes to kind of think about what we're going to call this. There's so many options.

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Ela Law: But yeah, thank you. Thank you. So.

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Christine Chessman: You know, we we might have to do a part 2, because.

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Ela Law: Something like.

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Christine Chessman: There's a lot of more unexplored.

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Christine Chessman: And areas that we need to go to.

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Christine Chessman: It's out there. Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: But thank you so much, Kate,

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Kate Ward: You're welcome.

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Christine Chessman: And we really do appreciate your time today and thank you for joining us on. Find your strong.

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Christine Chessman: Thank you for your time.