You Don't HAVE to Lift Weights, with Dr Lisa Folden @healthyphit

Ela and I LOVED this conversation.  It was a chance for us to debunk popular fitness culture myths and talk about why we don't all need to be lifting heavy shit, if it doesn't work for us and WHY even 5 minutes of movement counts.  

Dr. Lisa brings something unique to this space, specialising in physical therapy and body image.  Her own journey started only 6 years ago, having herself being submerged in diet culture and self flagellation until that point.  Dr. Lisa talks to us about how she is navigating the road to body acceptance and is very candid about her struggles along the way.  


*Dr. Lisa N. Folden is a North Carolina licensed physical therapist, NASM certified  behavior change specialist and Anti-diet Health & Body Image Coach. She owns Healthy Phit Physical Therapy & Wellness Consultants in Charlotte, NC where she provides trauma-informed and weight-inclusive care to clients in diverse bodies and those in eating disorder recovery.

As a health at every size (HAES®️) ambassador and movement expert, Dr. Folden assists clients seeking healthier lifestyles. Her weight-neutral approach encourages intuitive eating, joyful movement, body acceptance and breaking up with toxic diet culture. 

Dr. Lisa is a mom of three, published author and speaker whose goal is to see as many people as possible living their best lives without worrying about their weight!

Please reach out if you would like some support with your relationship to food OR movement. Ela currently has limited spaces for Intuitive Eating coaching and if you'd like to reconnect with movement, contact Christine.

AND if you enjoyed this episode, please share and follow the 'Find Your Strong podcast' and if you have time, write us a short review. It would honestly mean the world. Love to you all, Ela & Christine x

Transcript

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Christine Chessman: So welcome, Dr. Lisa Folden to the podcast we are so so excited to have you. And without further ado, I just want you to jump right in and just give us a little bit about what you do and why.

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Dr. Lisa: Sure.

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Christine Chessman: Do in the way that you do.

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Dr. Lisa: Absolutely thank you for having me. 1st and foremost, I appreciate any opportunity to talk about this stuff, because it's a big passion of mine. But essentially what I do. I'm a licensed physical therapist. I am licensed in North Carolina, and I practice in Charlotte. And what I did initially is, you know, just anything, any injury, orthopedic injury issue. I treated patients from the ages of birth all the way until

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Dr. Lisa: elderly people in their hundreds literally so I considered myself a generalist for many years, and then

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Dr. Lisa: maybe 6 or 7 years ago, I started having my own little. No, it's probably 8 years ago I started having my own little

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Dr. Lisa: crisis and and coming to know of my engagement with diet culture. I didn't realize I had been so entangled with diet culture, because for me it was called health and wellness. I grew up with a dad who was a fitness competitor, and I was a dancer and a runner, and I just saw weight as the absence of health. And then this as health

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Dr. Lisa: and so that was my training in physical therapy school. That was my mindset, and then it came to a head when I could not get my body to obey me any longer. When I started to gain weight.

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Dr. Lisa: for no reason that I could, you know, conceptualize. And then I stumbled upon the book health at every size by Dr. Bacon, and I could not put it down and then I read all of their books, and then I read Body of Truth by Harriet Brown, and then I read, hearing the black body by Sabrina Strings, and it just kept going and going and going and going, and so

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Dr. Lisa: I always tell people I have a doctorate in physical therapy, but I felt like I got another doctorate in anti diet and diet, culture, and all that, because there was so much to learn, and once you know the veil was lifted, if you will, I could not unsee it, and so I had to transition my entire life and my practice. So you know I stopped engaging in diets. I, you know, started working on my body image. I started

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Dr. Lisa: eating intuitively. You know, I read those books and started the certification for that. And then I transitioned my practice. And as a result, my practice niched down to basically primarily work with people in eating disorder, recovery and in larger bodies. And so now my space is about

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Dr. Lisa: providing a safe place for people to reacclimate, to movement and or recover from injury, regardless of what their bodies look like, regardless of their history or presence, you know, with eating disorders, and so I literally love it like I look forward to it every single day.

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Dr. Lisa: I also coach clients who are trying to find movement, actualize health, whatever that looks like, you know, or means to them, and and improve their body image. So I do that work virtually and in person as well, and it's like all I do now. So I love it. I'm very. I'm a person who's easily bored. And so that's why I was a generalist all those years, and seeing and treating everybody, but finding this population has been

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Dr. Lisa: so rewarding, and I still get to see so many different diagnoses, and you know so many complex individuals. So I don't find myself bored, which is a big plus. So that's a little bit about what I do and why. But I absolutely love it. I feel very called to this work, so it doesn't always feel like work, you know. So.

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Ela Law: That's the best kind of work, isn't it, when it doesn't feel like work? It's so interesting, this stumbling across the non-diet approach. I feel like that happens to a lot of people. It certainly

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Ela Law: happened to

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Ela Law: me when I felt like something wasn't quite right. I was in the public health nutrition space, and I stumbled across something and everything changed. But it really resonated when you said that I changed the way that I look at things, the way I do things. But then I had to just had to incorporate that into my work, because once you once you see.

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Ela Law: it sounds a bit sort of like. Once you see the light, you can't go back from it, but it's like that, isn't it? Because there is just so much value and so much truth

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Ela Law: in in this kind of approach, and so much

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Ela Law: compassion that going back seems impossible, doesn't it?

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Dr. Lisa: For sure, 100% feels impossible. And it's just undesirable. At this point, you know, I've had moments of weakness within myself, like, oh, gosh! Maybe I should try another diet, you know, but you know I don't follow through with it, but teaching that to other people I could never. It feels like what it feels like as a medical professional is doing harm. That's what it feels like. And and I'm just not interested in.

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Ela Law: In city.

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Dr. Lisa: Into that model anymore. There's enough harm out there, you know the stories I hear from my clients and patients, the things I've experienced. I just. I don't want anybody to feel to feel that. So yeah, I don't think I could ever go back for. No, there's no amount of money, or or there's no reason valid reason for it. So yeah, once you see it, you really cannot see it.

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Christine Chessman: I think for me. The 1st time that I came across the non-diet movement was on Instagram. There was there's an influencer called Lauren Level.

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Dr. Lisa: Hello!

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Christine Chessman: I'll put her details in the show notes. But she talked about untangling weight, loss, and movement

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Christine Chessman: like, why are we bringing them together? Let's just talk about movement. Bring it back to movement. Bring it back to how you feel in your body when you and it was like.

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Christine Chessman: Oh.

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Dr. Lisa: Like a light, like a light bulb, goes on.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, I was just suddenly like, why are we conflating? Why are we always talking about diet with exercise and body composition? And why can't we actually just talk about building strength feeling better?

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Christine Chessman: And just, you know, how do you want to feel in your body when you move.

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Christine Chessman: you know, and and using it to sort of strengthen our joints, and

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Christine Chessman: and just feel a bit stronger, more confident in our bodies as they are now, and it was just such as you say a light bulb, and you can.

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Christine Chessman: And then once you dive into all the books, all the books that you mentioned, where I think we've all read several times over. We've done the intuitive eating training, and it is. There's no way you could not look back now. You've seen.

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Dr. Lisa: Yep, you've seen it all.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, yeah. But for you, you changed your entire practice. Was that a.

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Dr. Lisa: Slow transition? Or how did you extricate yourself from? You know you may have had clients that you were working with.

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Christine Chessman: Cassidy. So how did you go about? Kind of change.

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Dr. Lisa: That was hard. Because yes, I did. I mean at the time I had a program I had created a weight loss program I created, and with no nutrition, education whatsoever, because my degree does not cover that at all. I created a meal plan for people to follow, to help them lose weight, you know. Because why not? And I thought this was going to be like the way I made it like, I'm going to be like a huge thing as this like

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Dr. Lisa: weight loss, you know, trainer, and and it's it's it's laughable now. But

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Dr. Lisa: I had to sort of gradually make the shift what I did is, I started, I think, incorporating the

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Dr. Lisa: weight neutral, messaging into my in interactions with my clients. I had several clients that were like definitely trying to lose weight, and you know, very much like coming to me. They might have come to form injury, but they were like, Okay, now, how do we get rid of this? So I had to start gently educating them as I was educating myself and

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Dr. Lisa: and there was sort of a 2 things that happened. One Covid happened in the process of this because I started sort of coming to my realization between 2018 and 2019, and in 2018 I had released my 1st book. It was all about.

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Dr. Lisa: A busy mom's guide to wellness, and there was a lot of diet language in there. So it was hilarious because I stopped promoting that

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Dr. Lisa: But Covid hit. So things slowed down naturally, and then I ended up. I was in a space like in a

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Dr. Lisa: office building like in the basement, and I don't. I never thought that I was this type of person, but I know that I am now not having direct. Sunlight was starting to really wear me down. I had been in this space for like 3 years, and so my lease was coming to an end, and the rent was going up, and I was like, you know, what

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Dr. Lisa: things have been rough since, Covid. I don't want to be here anymore. And so I just like, didn't renew my lease. Didn't have a plan for where my business is gonna go but as all things that are divine do it completely worked out, I I ran into. I was on the phone calling local gyms, which was hilarious in and of itself, because

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Dr. Lisa: I would get like this, not in my stomach every time like, look at their websites or call or call call them on the phone, because I'm like, maybe I could just rent a small room in like a gym. And just do you know, I wanted to do hybrid work virtual some days in person some days, and I just could not.

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Dr. Lisa: I was like, Oh, my stomach hurts! And so someone said, Hey, there's a dietician practice who, I think, has a big space, or might be looking to connect with other, you know, like providers in the anti diet world. And I'm like, Oh, if I could be in the anti diet world that would be so amazing. And so I called 2 people so funny. One was Melissa, who runs deeper roots

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Dr. Lisa: therapy mental health therapy. The other one was Annie, who runs second breakfast nutrition, and they ended up. They were in the same space, and they were expanding to a larger space. And they were

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Dr. Lisa: wow

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Dr. Lisa: for more people who, you know, were weight neutral. And so I reached out to both of them. They both called me back. We laughed like, Oh, basically the same business, you know, or base, and it was like a match made in heaven. They were like, Come in. We want to meet you. We talked one time, and they were like, Okay, you're in the space. And I was like, really, I hadn't seen it. I didn't know it just didn't matter. It was like farther from my house. It just it didn't matter. So

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Dr. Lisa: making that transition. And then sort of having a a lower clientele post Covid sort of made it where the transition could be a little smoother. So it was gradual initially, but then I was able to make a huge switch

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Dr. Lisa: and just like pivot. And then, you know, my messaging on social media was already building up to that, anyway. So then I started getting clients from there getting clients from, you know, the mental health practice, the dietician practice. So now my people find me, and it's way less of like a conversion. You know. I don't have to convert their thought process, which is, which is really helpful. So it took some time, but it was. It was worth the like couple years of transitioning, for sure.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah. And I remember that Evelyn Shibley, we had Evelyn on who was amazing. But she talked about people being at the right stage to work with them.

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Dr. Lisa: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: Everybody is ready to do the work. So if you if you're kind of set up in the anti diet practice, that's great, because you're gonna get the clients who are kind of

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Christine Chessman: they are ready. And they're interested. And they're curious. And they want to kind of change. Or, yeah.

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Dr. Lisa: It makes all the difference. Because you can't. It's already challenging to just, you know, help somebody buy into the idea of recovering from an injury, and and doing these particular movements, and and being consistent and paying the money like it's already a buy in there.

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Dr. Lisa: If you also have to convince them that weight, loss and dieting and restricting and all.

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Dr. Lisa: it's it's just a lot of education.

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Ela Law: And then.

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Dr. Lisa: I do think my my ideal client is someone who is who has recognized like that what they've been doing all this time isn't working and and maybe they're curious about another diet. But they're also kind of fed up with diets. That's usually my ideal client. There. They have their foot in the anti-diet door. They're not on another block, because it's just too much

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Dr. Lisa: work. Those people can follow my social media for a while and warm up, and then, like you know what you know. That makes a little bit a bit more sense for them.

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Ela Law: No.

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Christine Chessman: Your social media. You are on fire. It's amazing. Ella, I've got one more question, and then I will let you.

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Ela Law: Go for it.

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Christine Chessman: As a I'm a personal trainer, and Pilates teacher, and all that. I have a lot of people talk to me about joints.

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Christine Chessman: loss of their joints. And also worrying about being in a larger body, and the impact that would have on their joints, you know. Given that that is the rhetoric of our National Health Service and.

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Dr. Lisa: It is.

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Christine Chessman: And also I have several friends. I've got one friend in particular who went to the doctor with an excruciating pain in her lower back.

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Christine Chessman: unable to walk. And yeah, we can't talk to you until you lose weight and offered her wegovy or ozempic

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Christine Chessman: and wouldn't address any issue that she had until she lost wit. And it is just

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Christine Chessman: oh, it's like a banging your head against a brick wall, and I.

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Dr. Lisa: Thanks.

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Christine Chessman: Want to ask you for all of those people out there that are worried about what their weight, the impact of their weight on their joints

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Christine Chessman: can well any myths around that.

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Dr. Lisa: Absolutely. Yeah, I think. And this is something we learned in physical therapy school, too. This idea that you know increased weight is increased pressure on your joints, and you know, to some extent, you know, the laws of physics are that right? If we are jumping or running, or banging, whatever our body weight is, that is, you know, increasing the compressive force through our joints.

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Dr. Lisa: But the other side of the coin is, that is actually how our joints. Our bones grow and develop and and acclimate, and so, being in a large body, in and of itself, does not damage your joints. Your your bones are built for your body. The only time I can imagine or have seen

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Dr. Lisa: where there is some significant joint concern with changing body weight is, if you gain a very significant amount of weight in a very short period of time. So

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Dr. Lisa: if you go on a medication, and you know you gain 30 pounds in a couple of weeks like it's very, very different. But in general, the way that our bodies gain weight gradually there. It's no damage to our joints from that, because our joints are constantly acclimating to the load we put it under. And it's if people have trouble

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Dr. Lisa: conceptualizing that it's think about it from the perspective of progressive load with with lifting weights. If you, you know, add more weight over time. That is not bad for your joints. That is actually very good for your joints and your joint health, your bone, health, overall, our bones literally grow

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Dr. Lisa: with our bodies, and and acclimate to the force that it exerts, you know, on them. So that is just a big myth around. You know this idea that more weight means

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Dr. Lisa: for joint health, and that's not to dismiss anyone who.

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Dr. Lisa: you know, lived in a smaller body, and then started living in a larger body, and noticed there was more aches or pains or difficulty moving that that can sometimes be a result. But it's not the weight directly. Sometimes it's fluid retention, sometimes it's, you know, lack of mobility. It's loss of strength. It's loss of range, of motion or flexibility. There's other things, and we can address all those things without our weight ever changing.

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Dr. Lisa: and still feel better and move better, and and be, you know, healthier if you will. So we blame weight for

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Dr. Lisa: a lot of things that it's there. It's really not responsible for like, I said, our limited mobility or

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Dr. Lisa: worsening strength or injuries. Those are to blame for the things that you know. Sometimes we feel, and we can. We can work through those things. And regarding.

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Dr. Lisa: you know, people going to the doctor and not getting the care that they deserve. You know that is

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Dr. Lisa: unfair. That is discrimination, that is doing harm. That is not okay. One of my favorite sort of points of reference for support.

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Dr. Lisa: for printouts, for scripts is the fat doctor, Dr. Larmy, Dr. Asher Larmy. They just have great content around helping you navigate these conversations with doctors helping you seek a new doctor. I know Asda, the Association for size, Diversity, and Health, has a list of doctors and other

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Dr. Lisa: practitioners who practice from an anti diet or weight neutral, you know, paradigm. And you know we just need to find a network of people to support us. But if a doctor is

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Dr. Lisa: telling you oh, I can't do anything until you lose weight. They're not your doctor, and you need to report them, and you need to seek another doctor if you have access to that, because nothing about that is okay. Your fat body is not causing excruciating sharpshooting pains in your in your low back. The fat can't do that, and fat is far more protective than people give it credit for. So there's a whole nother

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Dr. Lisa: and.

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Christine Chessman: Of this, but that's just lazy medicine, and someone who doesn't care enough to look into what's going on with you. They're fat phobic. They have anti fat bias, and they are not willing to do the work. To try to figure out what's happening with you

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Christine Chessman: is actually, there's a huge amount of risk associated with keeping yourself in a smaller body when you're.

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Dr. Lisa: For sure.

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Christine Chessman: Isn't in that smaller size, naturally, especially when it comes to women kind of my age, and above kind of heading towards late forties, fifties with osteoporosis risk.

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Dr. Lisa: So far.

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Christine Chessman: In a very small body, and especially if you have, you know that is not your natural body size, and that you've kind of

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Christine Chessman: work with diet culture through that there's a huge amount of risk which we are never we don't hear about. We.

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Dr. Lisa: No.

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Christine Chessman: We're just shaming people in larger bodies for. And it's it just pains me because it's

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Christine Chessman: such a 1-sided conversation, you know.

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Ela Law: But I think a lot of a lot of practitioners don't actually know about it, because training for general practitioners is it's a little bit of everything, but nothing in detail, nothing sort of definitely, no non-diet kind of messaging, and therefore they're often not even aware that what they're prescribing is harmful and ineffective.

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Ela Law: which is really scary, really, because, you know, you go to your doctor because you trust them to tell you what you need to do to feel better. But you're getting the opposite, really. I mean, one of the one of the things that I've heard lots of people suggest to clients is when you go to the doctor to kind of just start with a sentence. What would you prescribe to someone in a smaller body? I would like that treatment. Please thank you to just not even go there. But that takes a lot of courage. It's just so unfair.

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Ela Law: Takes a lot of courage.

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Ela Law: Your shoulders to sort that out and to advocate for yourself it shouldn't happen, but unfortunately it does. So it's just so lovely to hear that there are people like you who.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Ela Law: You know, who treat with a weight neutral lens and treat the symptoms

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Ela Law: regardless of body size. I think that's we. We need way more of you way.

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Dr. Lisa: Thank you. No, we do. Just in the sense of understanding these concepts that we've been taught. And I get it. You want to just believe what you've been taught all these years. But it's really just the status quo. And so again, once you're introduced to, you know, an alternative way of thinking around a topic. You know you do yourself and your clients a disservice when you don't investigate that

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Dr. Lisa: and really think that through. It's the same way, you know, I'll post something about, you know, weight not being the culprit for this or that, and someone will be like this is a lie, you know, obesity kills, and they'll quote some random Webmd article. And I'm like, you know, I understand why they feel that way. One, you know. My statements are an assault to your identity. If you.

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Ela Law: I have.

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Dr. Lisa: That weight is the end. All be all, and you are strict and stern, and you diet and exercise, and you're committed, and you don't understand why other people can't be committed. I lived that life, so I understand why it's so offensive to you. But

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Dr. Lisa: if you don't take the time to look at the research that you're, you know, quoting and recognize, you know where who it's funded by. Read the results yourself. Not necessarily. Their conclusion of what the results say.

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Ela Law: Okay.

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Dr. Lisa: And understand like there's nothing. There's no reliable

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Dr. Lisa: significant, consistent research that supports weight loss being effective at doing anything in and of itself.

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Dr. Lisa: We see improvements in cardiovascular health with endurance training. Yes, we do. Whether the person loses weight or not.

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Dr. Lisa: We see there. There are things that improve outside of weight

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Dr. Lisa: over the course of time, and and since the intuitive eating books, you know, have been, I think they're on their 4th edition. Now, you know, more and more research has been done on that approach to eating intuitively, or practicing from a weight neutral space, working on your health. From that mindset

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Dr. Lisa: greater improvement in your overall health, even though weight doesn't always change very significantly. And I think the biggest thing is, people just need to understand that the same way we are all meant to be different heights and have different shoe sizes.

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Dr. Lisa: foot sizes. We are meant to be different body sizes. There are people on this world, on this world, on this earth who are supposed to be fat, and that is just the truth. There are people who are supposed to be fat. There are people who are supposed to be thin. There are people who are supposed to be mid size, and all of us will experience change along somewhere along that continuum over the course of our lives, assuming we live long enough, and furthermore.

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Dr. Lisa: the biggest red flag, and we learned this in Pt. School and in medical school. The biggest red flag for declining health when you're, you know, examining a patient is unexplained weight loss, not gain.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Dr. Lisa: Because weight gain typically signifies a level of health

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Dr. Lisa: access to food, you know, joy, happiness. But weight loss is usually like Whoa, what's happening is our body being depleted in some way? Is there a tumor cancer like something feeding off of us? That is the red flag? So the fact that we shift that, you know, in our approach, when we're dealing with patients or ourselves, it's just insane, because there's no, it doesn't even make sense. Weight weight is.

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Dr. Lisa: and it's not to say, Oh, you should just be gaining weight forever and forever, and be as big as you can be. No, everyone's bodies are. They sort of have, like an ideal set point and a range. And but it's individual. So we shouldn't all be trying to get to this middle place on this stupid Bmi chart, we should all be existing in our individuality, and finding the things that

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Dr. Lisa: help and heal and take good care of our bodies, because it's going to be different from person to person. So.

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Christine Chessman: And that is diversity exists. It is real, and it exists.

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Dr. Lisa: It's simple.

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Christine Chessman: And why we're all trying to be what you know. 5% of us can actually be or.

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Dr. Lisa: Exactly.

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Christine Chessman: It's just. It's really sad. I find it so sad.

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Dr. Lisa: But I.

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Dr. Lisa: But it's okay.

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Christine Chessman: About your journey a little bit

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Christine Chessman: practice how your movement practice specifically has changed since you started saying things through weight neutral lens, because I think, on another. Podcast I've been stalking you on.

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Dr. Lisa: Love it.

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Christine Chessman: You were mentioning about how your regime was quite strict.

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Dr. Lisa: Oh, yeah.

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Christine Chessman: You saw the light.

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Ela Law: Oh!

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Christine Chessman: On mute

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Christine Chessman: workout every day, and then you kind of shifted to 5 days a week, and then it changed. And so how was it a gradual change for you from your kind of full on working out every day? Or was it.

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Dr. Lisa: It is

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Dr. Lisa: so. The part of the story. When I was doing 7 days a week, I've always been a very regimented person. I grew up in a lot of chaos, and for me structure felt like safety. So I, as a child, became a very devout, conservative Christian on my own. My parents not encourage it. I also exercised a lot, and, you know, tracked my meals, and I was doing a lot

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Dr. Lisa: just a lot. It felt like protection. It felt like safety. It felt like this is the way to become successful and happy.

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Dr. Lisa: and again it unraveled. After I, you know, got married, had kids and went through all these transitions with my body. So at the point when I was working out 7 days a week, that was when I had stopped nursing my final child, and I just gained like 20 pounds. And I was like, Oh, my God!

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Dr. Lisa: And so I was like, I gotta get serious. So I started eating all of my food out of small portion containers. I was heavily restricting. My rule was to go to bed every night hungry, because that

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Dr. Lisa: would result in maybe a 1 or 2 pound weight loss. The next morning it was extremely disordered for sure orthorexia, not something. I would have been screened for diagnosed with at that time, anyway. But I know now that I was living in a very disordered way, and yeah, 7 days a week exercise. It was 30 to 45 min a day, and

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Dr. Lisa: just no excuses. It was, go hard or go home. Exercise was punishment, but it was also, you know I considered it like taking care of myself. I look back at pictures. My eyes. I've always had dark circles, but they were darker and sunk it in. I was mentally consumed by the thought of what I was going to be doing for movement, and what I was going to be eating

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Dr. Lisa: all day. Every day I was eating before I would go out with friends. I would sometimes go out with friends and just binge like crazy. I was really struggling, and it looked. Everyone looked at me like, Oh, look at her! She's so disciplined and so in control. But really, on the inside I was a very sad.

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Dr. Lisa: confused, stressed person. And so

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Dr. Lisa: I woke up one day and was like, Okay, 7 days is just pushing it. Let me drop down to 5 days, and when I dropped down to 5 days I had, because I had lost weight. I lost about 1520 pounds, and after I dropped down to 5 days, within about 3 to 4 months I gained everything I lost back plus more, and then I was even more upset with myself and more disappointed. Because I'm like what is wrong with me. And that's when I stumbled upon the health at every size book. And that's when things started to shift. And what happened was, you know. I still lingered and tried a diet or 2 after that, but

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Dr. Lisa: finally I stopped moving. I stopped. I had to stop moving because movement for me became about. I could not dissociate movement from weight, loss or movement, from body changes or movement from worth or like. I couldn't. So I had to stop.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Dr. Lisa: In the process. I think I probably gained about 40 pounds, which was very difficult, and you know still something that you know you can struggle with from day to day. The healing process continues right, but I had to stop. I had to kind of go cold turkey, because movement was too much for me, and so I would say, I got back into a rhythm around

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Dr. Lisa: 2022, and then I kind of took a break again, and I've been pretty consistent most of this year. Now, where I feel like, okay, I found things that that mean something to me, and I'm slowly getting back to some of the movements I was doing before, but not anything

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Dr. Lisa: intense. I actually prefer my workouts to be 10 to 20 min. I don't. Do you know. Really. Occasionally I'll do a 30 min. I'm like, Oh, I have a lot of energy today, but you know I'm a i am now a single mom of 3. And so energy is not always in abundance. So

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Dr. Lisa: I am more a 1020 min workout person. I do work out about 4 days a week, and then I kind of commit to myself to be at least active a little bit over the weekends, just for my body's health. Just so. I don't feel stiff, just so that I don't feel uncomfortable, but I you know I don't have a scale. I don't check my weight. I don't track my sizes. I don't take any measurements unless it's like, because I'm ordering something offline. And I want to be accurate. I'm very

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Dr. Lisa: mindful about my activators or triggers, so that I don't kind of go back down that

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Dr. Lisa: that rabbit hole because it's easy for me to spiral, you know, for sure. But movement took a while to adjust to, and I know one thing, I was a big runner, and I would force running, even though it didn't feel good in my body after my 1st pregnancy. But now I don't even attempt to run. I'm like I mean, I might like jog to the car, but it's so.

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Dr. Lisa: I am not running. I'm not trying to force myself to run or do. I used to do 5 ks.

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Dr. Lisa: Every month. I used to try to do a 5 k. Once a month. I don't even sign up for those things because I'm like, I don't even enjoy it anymore. It used to be an enjoyable experience, but now it hurts, and I'm not forcing myself through that. So I'm very particular about my movement now. It's about joy, it's about what I feel like. It's about what I think my body needs. It's short.

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Dr. Lisa: it's, you know, like I said, maybe 4 days a week. But even if it's not, I don't beat myself up about it, I just, I'm like, I didn't need movement today. My body needed something else, or my heart needed something else, or my mind needed something else. And sometimes the other parts of you get to take priority over the physical and the movement. So that's how I see it now.

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Ela Law: I think that this is going to be for a lot of the listeners going to be revolutionary, to hear that a physical therapist or physiotherapist, as they're known in the Uk. Says that

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Ela Law: I I

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Ela Law: exercise, do the things that I move my body, do the things that I enjoy 1015 min. That is not what people are told. People are told. Oh, under an hour you might as well not bother.

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Ela Law: and I have a real issue with that, because I find exercising for an hour incredibly boring. I.

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Dr. Lisa: Same.

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Ela Law: It would need to be a super super interesting class for me to actually stay focused and enjoy it. Half an hour is perfect, and body image fitness is actually great, because a lot of the lessons or sessions are half an hour, but even that sometimes feels like.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Ela Law: So. I love love, love, love that you said that because that makes me feel a lot better for doing sort of maybe short 10.

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Dr. Lisa: Vincent.

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Ela Law: Minutes and doing it. And I think, if I understand this correctly, this is part of disentangling it from body control, trying to control your body and shaping it into a smaller size.

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Dr. Lisa: 100%.

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Ela Law: Exactly so. It's not about that anymore. Now, it is about your body's well-being and your mental wellbeing. So would you say, would you recommend this kind of approach to your clients, would you say, Look, if you want to do something

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Ela Law: good for your body that feels good in your body.

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Ela Law: try that. Try 10 min a day.

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Dr. Lisa: Absolutely.

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Ela Law: That you recommend.

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Dr. Lisa: I recommend it every time I see a client, I mean. Sometimes I have clients who like have an abundance of free time in their schedule and have specific activities that they really enjoy. Like you said, an hour is so boring, but I know what I can do for an hour without complaints or more dance. I know.

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Ela Law: Oh, really! There you go!

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Dr. Lisa: Or I can go out with my girlfriends and.

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Ela Law: You know.

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Dr. Lisa: Because it does. It's not this this like rigid like, oh, you have to do it this way. It's a freedom and expression and enjoying an atmosphere and and being with other people. So it's it's meeting my needs emotionally and mentally, not just physically. And that that's the biggest thing I try to teach my clients is that you know, when we talk about the wellness wheel, the health wheel, we looking at all the all the parts of us and parts of our community. Even

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Dr. Lisa: we hone in on this little strip. That's like, maybe 10%, Max.

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Dr. Lisa: what we eat and how we move. That's it. It doesn't. And it's just for our physical stuff. It's not to consider all the rest of us. So I am very big on like, how can I? I call it Larry? How can I layer

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Dr. Lisa: an activity that's good for my body? But it also does something for me in a spiritual way or a mental way, or an emotional way or social way. And so that might mean

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Dr. Lisa: I'm going to set an atmosphere. So I'm gonna like light candles and make the light low and play music that I like, so that this Yoga practice feels like refreshing to my soul. Or it might mean, you know what I'm going to meet up with my friends, and we're gonna go on this walk because walking is boring. But if we get to talk and laugh the whole way. Then it makes it really fun, and I'll probably even walk further. So I think about ways to make

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Dr. Lisa: movement feel good to other parts of who you are, and and reminding ourselves you're so much more than a body. But yes, I recommend to my clients a 1015 min workout. Actually, I give a lot of my clients the 5 min rule which the person who actually explained it better than me is one of my good friends, Wren Jones from Fitness Jones training, he says, like, you know, you set a timer for 5 min and you find something

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Dr. Lisa: you want to do that's active for 5 min. When that timer goes off you sit down, you take some breaths, you assess you decide like, do I really still want to do this? Or is this like? Do I want to try something else? Or do I want to be done? Or if you want to do it, you set another 5 min timer, and you go back to it. And really you just give yourself the opportunity to tune in and ask the questions within. Do I like this? Does it feel good? Do I really feel like I need this? Is this helping me? Do I want more? Do I want less? Do I want to stop.

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Dr. Lisa: and it gives you back the control and the freedom that you should have in your movement practice, anyway. So yeah, I tell clients 5 min, 10 min whatever, because really the issue is our all or nothing, thinking

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Dr. Lisa: it's like like you said, oh, if you don't do 4 h, you might as well not do it. That is not true. All movement counts, all movement matters every minute matters, and it can all benefit you. It doesn't have to look a certain way, or be a certain length. So for sure, trying things in shorter durations, it gives you back the power and the freedom to be like.

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Dr. Lisa: You know what. I didn't have time for a 45 min class today. I didn't have time to get dressed. Drive to the gym. Do a class drive back shower. But I got up this morning before I started breakfast, and I did a 10 min workout. And that's literally what I did today. What I did yesterday what I did Monday, because that's what I have time for, and bandwidth for. So yeah.

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Christine Chessman: And it's enough. It's enough. That's what I always tell clients. It's enough. And you know I often get the question. Well, what's enough? How do I know? It's enough? And I'm like enough for what.

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Dr. Lisa: Or what.

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Christine Chessman: But we. We wanted to talk before we go over our time loads, because we tend to do that quite a lot. This is such a great conversation. I could literally just.

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Ela Law: Love it.

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Christine Chessman: We well, I am very much in perimenopause. I was sort of speaking for you. There.

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Ela Law: Yeah, same.

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Dr. Lisa: We're all there.

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Christine Chessman: Rude. And I'm getting the questions so often about strength training to the point that I made a video. That was my, I got my biggest response on Instagram, like the saying, I think we need to address the fact that

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Christine Chessman: strength, training, and the narrative around it is becoming a real massive amount of pressure on women. Similarly to diet culture. It's like you must do strength training in this way or no movement you do is valid. If you are not lifting very heavy shit. When you are 40 and over you are doing bad things for your health. It is the rhetoric that is coming at us

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Christine Chessman: and the amount of people that said, I'm so glad somebody said this because it's really I absolutely hate it, and I feel like nothing I'm doing is doing my body any good because I'm not in the gym, lifting really heavy weights.

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Dr. Lisa: And you know.

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Dr. Lisa: and and I'd love to get your perspective on it, because my perspective is certainly possibly the most efficient way.

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Christine Chessman: And to protect our joints. You know, muscle, mass, bone, density, all of that lifting heavy absolutely. But there are many other ways that we can impact our bone health

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Christine Chessman: and our joint health. And is that how you would answer that? How would you answer it? Dr.

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Dr. Lisa: Yeah, I mean, I would argue. So. I think the shift has been because women were taught, you know, to be small as possible. So cardio cardio cardio. So I endorse this sort of regression from overdoing cardio. I don't think it actually helps us as we age, especially as women. So for me, I would tell people, you know.

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Dr. Lisa: Cardio, in the sense of like, maybe go up and down your stairs a few times, or if you really enjoy a brisk walk, go for it once or twice a week, and there's nothing wrong with doing more of it but

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Dr. Lisa: that over exertion, like running really hard running really far hours at a time. I actually think it ages us in a negative way. Nothing wrong with aging right, but I think it ages us progresses our aging as far as our joints and our bone health go. So I'm not a big fan of like excess, excessive cardio. So I do definitely promote strength and flexibility training. And then also just equally as important, you know,

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Dr. Lisa: balance and coordination training like that's really really huge agility. Things like that. But I don't think that strength training requires lifting heavy at all. I actually think some of the most efficient strength training is body weight training, like literally just your body.

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Dr. Lisa: Your body weighs, whatever it weighs, and you can load it and do different things to strengthen your joints, your bones, your muscles, without ever picking up a weight. Our weights great, absolutely. I love, I keep. I think I have what? A 25 pound dumbbells, 12 eights fives. I like having access to weights to add additional load to challenge myself. But

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Dr. Lisa: you can absolutely be really strong and have decent bone health and muscle, strength from body weight exercises, planking, lunging squats. Wall sits. You know anything, anything that requires you to bear weight through parts of your body.

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Dr. Lisa: and you'll get stronger. And then I would say the thing that people are missing. I would say, women, men, everybody as we age is the flexibility training. We put that on the back burner. I tell everyone I meet, your muscles are only as strong as they are flexible, honey. I don't care how good the bicep looks if you can't straighten your elbow to reach something without it snapping. Guess what? It's weak. So you know, for me, it's more so about

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Dr. Lisa: managing the we get so caught up in. I should do this. I shouldn't do that.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, exactly.

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Dr. Lisa: There really are no shoulds. Really, you should find what feels good to you, and you should try to incorporate all the things. But if you're not stretching, then it doesn't matter. You're gonna injure yourself and won't be able to do it for a while, anyway. So.

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Christine Chessman: And it.

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Dr. Lisa: I would say that thing to use.

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Christine Chessman: This is so interesting to me because I do a mobility class or joint mobility class with body image fitness, and a number of my other clients, I'm like, come along, let's do some mobility, and they're like.

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Christine Chessman: and there is a resistance to it because you're not sweating. You're not lifting heavy weights. You're just taking your body, your joints through their full range of motion. And and you know and it's because there isn't that. Yeah. But what's it going to do for me? What's it going to? What are the results? I'm going to see? Where is.

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Dr. Lisa: Let me say, tell them as a physical therapist, let me promise you what it's gonna do for you is eliminate or prevent a lot of the unnecessary injuries that we incur.

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Christine Chessman: Coming to you.

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Dr. Lisa: We'll all get injured right. We live long enough. We will all get injured. We will lose some abilities. There's no shame in that, it happens. But there are some things that are very preventable. And if you are not doing consistent mobility training, that is where you know there's an opportunity to make some transitions. And you're right. You're not going to sweat. You're not going to feel like you did so much. But you're going to feel so much better. And so just incorporating, stretching into while you're sitting watching television while you're waiting

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Dr. Lisa: on something in the oven. Well, you know, just it doesn't have to be anything elaborate. Oh, I have to do a 30 min mobility session every day. No, you don't. It can be.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Dr. Lisa: 3 min in the morning, 2 min at night. It doesn't have to be a lot, but mobility training is everything so definitely make that a priority in your in your life, for sure it's just another way to take care of your body.

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Ela Law: And it's a great. It's a great way to have it stack, isn't it? As you said, you can do that while you're doing something else. I started doing that when I brush my teeth, so I do. I do a hip flexor stretch when I brush my teeth in the mornings, and I do a balancing exercise when I brush my teeth at night.

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Dr. Lisa: I love it. I tell people all the time stand on one foot while you brush your teeth.

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Ela Law: I know, and.

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Dr. Lisa: Like it looks like nothing.

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Ela Law: Difficult when you 1st start.

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Dr. Lisa: And then you get better.

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Dr. Lisa: And then the next time you're out walking and you miss a step, your body adjusts and you're able to keep yourself off the ground.

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Dr. Lisa: So that's the stuff that matters when we're talking about quality of life and longevity, you know, if that is something that you're focusing on. So yeah, you don't need to lift heavy, heavy weights. You don't need to work out for hours. You don't need to do tons of cardio. You just need to incorporate some strength, endurance, you know balance training consistently in your life, and and sometimes you'll have weeks where you're not consistent because life is happening, and then all you need is some compassion and grace.

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Dr. Lisa: and give that to yourself, and get back to it when you can. But all the judging and the shaming and the shoulds like those, are all like shame seeds, and we don't get any beautiful growth from that stuff. So.

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Christine Chessman: Oh, my!

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Christine Chessman: Throw all that out.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, I would just love to work with you here.

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Ela Law: Come to the UK.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, on that.

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Christine Chessman: If our listeners are like, I want to work with Dr. Lisa, how can they work with you? Can they work with you? How would they access.

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Dr. Lisa: Yeah. So you know, if anyone needs physical therapy, you'd have to physically be in North or South Carolina because of my licensing restrictions. And I do offer that in person and virtually but outside of that, for my health coaching I do packages like 6 sessions or 12 sessions where we meet

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Dr. Lisa: typically biweekly. And we talk about all the things. And so we get into body image. We get into movement. We talk about intuitive eating. We talk about general health, whatever it is you're kind of struggling with, and so Instagram is the easiest place to find me at healthy fit.

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Dr. Lisa: It is spelled PHIT. But you can also go to my website, healthyfit.com and you can just schedule a call. I I like to talk to the people 1st before I sell them anything, because I want you to make sure what you're getting makes sense for you and your specific needs. So it starts with a 15 min free discovery call, we chat, talk about your concerns and thoughts, and then, if it feels good to you, we get you scheduled and and get you set up. But it's a

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Dr. Lisa: it's a i enjoy it again. I do that coaching virtually and in person to people who are local because sometimes that means like we're gonna meet up in the community. Or maybe we're gonna try to go to a gym that you're interested in or try to do an activity you're interested in. Because I want people to. I want this to be functional and practical. So so just reach out schedule a call, and we can see if it makes sense.

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Ela Law: Amazing. We'll put all of that in the show notes for easy access. But oh, I could just talk to you for hours, and it's just so so interesting, because obviously, it's not my background. My background is nutrition. So hearing you both sort of share, all your knowledge is just really really interesting to me. So thank you so much.

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Dr. Lisa: Cheers.

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Dr. Lisa: Thank you very much, Dr. Lisa, and we might have to have you back for Part 2

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Dr. Lisa: to do that.

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Ela Law: Thank you.

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Christine Chessman: Thank you.