Movement is the Destination. A Conversation with Damali Fraiser

As Christine so aptly put it: What a powerhouse! Our conversation with Damali Fraiser was vulnerable, open and incredibly interesting. 

We talked about:

- how to navigate body changes as we age and as we adapt to hormonal changes and injury

- Damali's journey of recovering from her hysterectomy

- how to coach with a trauma informed and inclusive ethos

- the importance of dismantling hierarchies (in movement and in general!)

- why she found herself drawn to kettlebell training

- the benefits of strength training and that it doesn't have to look the same for everyone

- her incredible coaching course for fitness instructors (see more information below)

- what a snatch is!! (Ela was clueless but is now totally in the know - listen to find out!)

Some more information about Damali:

Meet Coach Damali, pronouns she/her. Damali is a compassionate Kettlebell Expert, author, speaker, fitness / nutrition coach and founder of Lift off Strength & Wellness. Damali is known for her unapologetic opposition to diet culture in the kettlebell community and as a passionate educator who will help you learn to train with kettlebells safely. Through her Inclusive Kettlebell Coach course and certification programs, you learn to teach kettlebells from an intersectional lens that's size-inclusive, trauma-informed, judgement-free and for every BODY (emphasis on the body because humanity has always had body diversity)

You can connect with Damali on her website http://liftoffstrength.ca , on Instagram @‌Damali.Fraiser, TikTok and on YouTube @‌liftoffstrength or through her retreats for Black Women and women of colour (WOC) in Kettlebells @‌kettlebellsinblack.

Please reach out if you would like some support with your relationship to food OR movement. Ela currently has limited spaces for Intuitive Eating coaching and if you'd like to reconnect with movement, contact Christine.

AND if you enjoyed this episode, please share and follow the 'Find Your Strong podcast' and if you have time, write us a short review.  It would honestly mean the world.  Love to you all,  Ela & Christine x

Please reach out if you would like some support with your relationship to food OR movement. Ela currently has limited spaces for Intuitive Eating coaching and if you'd like to reconnect with movement, contact Christine.

AND if you enjoyed this episode, please share and follow the 'Find Your Strong podcast' and if you have time, write us a short review. It would honestly mean the world. Love to you all, Ela & Christine x

Transcript

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Christine Chessman: So welcome to the find your strong podcast with Christine and Ella. Another week, another amazing guest. This week we have got part 2 with Damali Fraser and I, Damali, is I was going to say this word powerhouse. I say, powerhouse, that's my Irish accent. But how do you say it in English Powerhouse

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Body Positive Fitness: Our house. I like the way it sounds either way.

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Christine Chessman: Coach. Dimali is a compassionate. I'm going to read her bio, because it really struck me actually. And the way it was written. And I just thought we should read it out before we get started. So Damali is a compassionate Kettlebell, expert author, speaker, fitness, nutrition, coach, as well as founder of lift off strength and wellness. She's known now this I love. She's known for her unapologetic opposition to diet culture and the Kettlebell

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Christine Chessman: community, and as a passionate educator. I have done one of her courses, and it was amazing, through her inclusive Kettlebell coaching, you learn to teach Kettlebells from an intersectional lens size, inclusive, trauma-informed judgment free, and for every body, and with emphasis on the body, as humanity has always had body diversity.

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Christine Chessman: I love that Bio de Mali

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Body Positive Fitness: Well, thank you. I it's you know. It's hard to come together with your words when you're passionate about many things. And be able to let people know where you stand. But I I appreciate the love, and I I'm glad to be here. I'm grateful to see you, you folks from across the waters

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Ela Law: Yes, yeah, we're grateful to you. Thank you so much. I mean, it does sound like people who work with you are in a really really safe space.

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Body Positive Fitness: Oh, thank you. I mean, I I believe that we create brave spaces for folks to explore. Being curious. They can sometimes feel

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Body Positive Fitness: a little bit off their ground, a little bit out of their foundation. But the hope is that they're able to come into themselves a little bit more each time that we connect. So I love my community. I love the people I've been able to teach like Christine coming in, even if it's from virtual. We kind of like connect every time we meet. So thank you.

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Christine Chessman: What I was really interested in is that I well, I've got a busy brain, but I have. I love movement. I love Kettlebells, but I find it hard to really pick that one niche, because I also do kind of Pilates, and I do body weight, strength, and I do other stuff. And what

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Christine Chessman: brought you to that niche? What made you go? This is it? I'm going to base my business around the Kettlebell, was it? Just you just find a love of it, de Mali, or what was

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Body Positive Fitness: Yeah, you know what like I am. It's funny you chose powerhouse as your word, but you know I'm I am a power enthusiast, I would say, when it comes to my choice of modalities. It's not

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Body Positive Fitness: a coincidence that I started in like high school playing Rugby and then I had kids, which is a powerful thing. And then I went to Muay Thai. So I was doing thai kickboxing and competing as an amateur Muay Thai fighter for 3 years.

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Body Positive Fitness: And that's where I actually encountered Kettlebells as a functional training tool for fighters, for combat athletes and striking. So I found a lot of likeness in the ballistic movements of Kettlebells to what I enjoyed in striking, but with lower impact.

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Body Positive Fitness: So I was able to combine that functional movement with my sport or modality of choice at the time, and find a lot of growth in my own athleticism, but also for me personally.

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Body Positive Fitness: and when I had my first, st like major sports injury, which was 2016, I tore my acl medial and lateral meniscus.

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Body Positive Fitness: After that surgery, recovering from the acl reconstruction. Kettlebells was with me all the way through.

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Body Positive Fitness: so I found a little bit like I still think Muay Thai saved my life. I feel like Muay Thai is for everybody as well. I would say that too. But I found that I was able to take care of us with me through different seasons of my body, changing, of encountering physical trauma dealing with internal trauma and realizing those things through my like recovery.

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Body Positive Fitness: recovery from sports injury. So Kettlebells became my friend. Kettlebells became

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Body Positive Fitness: a go to a refuge and so I you know I've done powerlifting Olympic lifting. So again power sports kind of my but folks do know me as a Kettlebell instructor, and I will. I'm looking to make Kettlebells more accessible to communities.

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Body Positive Fitness: But it doesn't mean that I don't. I just love movement. I think movement is the destination. So I will say Kettlebells are for every body like every kind of body, but they might not be for everyone.

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Body Positive Fitness: Some, some people might might not be feeling it like I was feeling it. And that's okay. That is what we have in terms of diversity and choice, so I will encourage folks to explore, and I believe Kettlebells gives, like an opportunity to access different kinds of exploration of movement. But I'm never gonna sit here and say, if you don't love Kettlebells, you're

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Body Positive Fitness: yeah.

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Body Positive Fitness: If that's the show they're looking for, this is the wrong channel

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Christine Chessman: Yeah. And you know the circling back. I'm sorry I'm taking over for 1 min

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Ela Law: No go for it.

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Christine Chessman: I'm back to Muay Thai so interestingly. Well, to me it's interesting. My mum passed away sadly a few weeks ago. I felt like I don't want to talk. I want to box and hit something. And then I went to. I find a local boxing gym, which is called Team Queen, and it's actually a really inclusive space. It's Lgbtq plus community, a very inclusive gym.

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Christine Chessman: and it was just I got a 1 to one with a trainer, and she started like telling me to kind of dance and be on my tiptoes. It was all very. I was like, What are we doing? What is this, and she said, Oh, this is Muay Thai and I went. What? And then immediately you came into my head because I was like, this is Muay Thai and the force of the kick. So I just love it. But it is complicated. Dimali, like the just all the movements, and I just thought you'd go in and box something, but

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Body Positive Fitness: Right. I mean

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Christine Chessman: Oh!

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Body Positive Fitness: Do need to do that. And and my, I really feel for that experience, and it resonates with me. There's so much to be said for how we experience grief and how we process it in our body. And yeah, striking getting something and being able to just let loose. Yeah.

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Body Positive Fitness: I don't necessarily always say, take up space. But taking up space in these different ways, whether is

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Body Positive Fitness: and I I

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Body Positive Fitness: I partner this with Kettlebells, because that same idea of it's oh, it looks like it's so easy.

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Body Positive Fitness: But it's actually quite complex.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Body Positive Fitness: Thai is like that, too. Right? You're like, Oh, just punch the thing or just and when you start to watch technique, you start to realize the intricacies and the nuances of the movement, as well as if you start to watch like a boxer versus a kickboxer versus a muay thai athlete like you'll see the differences in the sport and notice the nuances. But yeah, it's it can really help

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Body Positive Fitness: build you up. It kind of feels like it's breaking you down. But you kind of break down

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Body Positive Fitness: to build yourself back up. In those moments

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Christine Chessman: I mean, it's the instructor is hilarious because she I keep going. Oh, sorry! Oh, sorry! Cause she's like, turn around this way. Use your hips, push it, and I'm like, Oh, sorry! And she went right every time. You say. Sorry you have to give me 10 kicks on each leg, so I have to.

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Christine Chessman: and I'm like, Oh, the amount of kicks I did last week was nothing. But I love that because she's like we don't apologize for ourselves in this space. We don't

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Body Positive Fitness: No, we don't, and we don't apologize for the sounds we make. Learn your Ti. You get your voice same thing, Kettlebells. So as I'm teaching, and I'm asking persons to breathe like this could be the 1st time they actually listen to themselves. Breathe

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Christine Chessman: Wow! Please.

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Body Positive Fitness: Listen to yourself. Breathe, allow yourself to breathe as loud as you need to, right in those moments. So it's it's really an embodied experience. Overall

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Christine Chessman: 100 that sounds like it could be incredibly powerful.

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Ela Law: To do that, to to let that happen. If you are someone who's sort of holding back.

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Ela Law: to let rip, and to make those noises, and to kind of get really into it. That sounds amazing.

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Body Positive Fitness: It. I believe it is. I love it. I absolutely love Muay Thai absolutely love Kettlebells. For that reason it's a process. It takes time. So that's where you know, your trauma informed. Coaching comes into play. It's not just like an immediate like. Oh, here's your coping mechanism. It's like you're going to go through a process and going to give yourself space, and and that might be scary.

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Body Positive Fitness: and I'm here to support you along the way to where you are, to, where you want to be.

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Ela Law: That's really interesting. You just mentioned the trauma informed approach. Can you tell us a little bit more about how that is reflected in your coaching when you Coach Kettlebell classes, do you do group sessions? Do you do one-to-ones or both? Or how? How does that sort of filter into your coaching practice?

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Body Positive Fitness: Well, as I said, I started kettlebells through muay thai fighters, and it's funny, as you say, like a lot of us came into that space, realizing that we came with a lot of things that we were trying to process.

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Body Positive Fitness: and that that is something you'll encounter. So it's very common that you'll notice like, Oh, a lot of these students have a lot of trauma, have a lot of physical trauma, have personal trauma and trauma is something that you experience based on how you encountered an experience. So not every experience will hit the same person the same way.

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Body Positive Fitness: So my

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Body Positive Fitness: practice is really about noticing and naming how trauma affects the body, the nervous system, and how we can use movement to help us process cope, manage with our trauma. So it's not just about queuing, although queuing both internal and external queuing is important. It's understanding like the appropriate dose for that giving people awareness of the spectrum, the learning spectrum of their experience as well.

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Body Positive Fitness: so giving giving them different types of learning tools, and being able to have a fully human experience when teaching and that means also for myself humanity into it. So I'm not a robot. I'm also not perfect. I'm not the epitome or pinnacle of fitness. I'm going to experience fitness very differently from how you experience it, and that that is allowed in in the space

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Ela Law: Wow, that that sounds like, yeah. As I said before, like a really safe space for people to. And do you feel like people who have experienced trauma sort of gravitate to to your sessions. Do you feel like there is something about the way that you

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Ela Law: presents your service, your coaching, that kind of people gravitate towards you that have experienced trauma

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Body Positive Fitness: I think that we're still in the world of diet culture. So I want to be fully like transparent right?

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Body Positive Fitness: So for the most part

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Ela Law: People are often still looking for fitness, or see fitness as a means of weight, loss.

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Body Positive Fitness: Class, or changing their body aesthetically

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Body Positive Fitness: So are they necessarily seeing me and being like, Oh, I have trauma. I want to. I want to train with coach tomorrow.

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Body Positive Fitness: Probably that's the minority right now. Would I like to see more people understand how Kettlebell training can help them? From a trauma? Informed Lens. Yes, that's what. Why do I want to be out here? But I think people are still seeking like, I want to do something. I want to feel better in my body. I wanna move better or perform better, or I want to change how my body looks.

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Body Positive Fitness: And then we start working together, and then they start to get a little more curious about their body and start to see, and then some things might be bubbling up, and how they feel, and that can transform their journey into fitness from being purely an aesthetic goal to fully transformational goal in their movement journey

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Christine Chessman: I think I find trauma informed. Coaching is so important for coaches like us. I think it's so important that we do those certifications and those qualifications, because no matter who you're training, you are holding space for people and issues are going to come up in the sessions because you're training with the body, and emotions are expressed through the body and are moved through the body. And it's it's inevitable that you're going to be holding

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Christine Chessman: that space for people, isn't it? And it's often quite a vulnerable space. If people

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Body Positive Fitness: You.

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Christine Chessman: Are coming to movement after a long time away from movement, or who haven't moved before and aren't feeling comfortable in their bodies, is, you know, it's like a responsibility. It's like a duty of care, almost, isn't it?

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Body Positive Fitness: Right like 10 years ago, when I started teaching Kettlebells, I was only doing one on ones or group fitness. And again, you know it's just do as much as possible volume as much

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Christine Chessman: Yes.

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Body Positive Fitness: Well, whereas now, after going through so many certifications and courses and programs, I said, You know, there's a lot of detailed information about exercise. But

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Body Positive Fitness: there's not as much about Kettlebells, so personal training certifications are not, including Kettlebells. The nuance of using a Kettlebell, and also not taking a trauma informed, and size inclusive approach. So that's where I created Coaches Corner. And really my focus is on supporting coaches and practitioners, clinicians who want to use kettlebells in their practice. Even if you're a physical therapist

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Body Positive Fitness: physical Therapy School, they're not teaching Kettlebells, Kettlebells. So I want them to be able to take Kettlebells into their practice safely, so understand the nuances of

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Body Positive Fitness: training with a Kettlebell, but also be able to make sure that they are creating brave, safe spaces for all of their clients through a trauma, informed Lens. So that's really like my focus. I do always have one on one clients I take like a couple per year, because I like to be in community with people, and I do community partnerships with Gyms where I'll come in. I'll do workshops and I'll do classes.

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Body Positive Fitness: But my focus is really on trying to transform the coaching community to safely teach Kettlebells from a trauma, informed Lens

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, it is needed tomorrow. Have you got a question? Because I've got about 100?

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Ela Law: I've got 100, too. But I because, as I said to you, I'm not. I'm not a an expert in Kettlebells whatsoever. I actually have done a course with Christine, an introduction course with Kettlebells, and that made me realize how

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Ela Law: how technical it is and how easily you can get it wrong and appreciating the fact that you you sort of your focus, is on coaching the coaches to use them.

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Ela Law: How would you?

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Ela Law: How would you get someone interested in actually giving it a go. Given that there is quite a lot of technique and quite a lot to learn. You can't just go out by a Kettlebell and swing it around because you can do yourself a lot of damage. So how would you get someone interested in it to start off with

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Body Positive Fitness: Well, one thing I'll say for sure. You buy a Kettlebell sure buy a Kettlebell, and I always just say like how to get started, pick it up, put it down

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Body Positive Fitness: like to get noticed, like how it feels on, like the look, how it feels and how it does feel differently, because it is a unique shape, like the best

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Ela Law: And then

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Body Positive Fitness: That'll Bell really have to do with the fact that this ball of metal has a handle

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Body Positive Fitness: Gives you access to a whole bunch of fluid movements, and it will feel different when you're holding it. So you want to start something. You gotta pick it up. Get a coach

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Body Positive Fitness: That financially might not be as accessible to you. But there might be a drop in. There might be a class right. There might be a free course or a little freebie that a coach is like. Offer. Go ahead and get access because you do want a Kettlebell instructor that's exclusive, and that understands the nuance of a Kettlebell, not someone who's gonna say, Oh, you know, just it's a dumbbell. Just pick it up like a dumbbell

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Christine Chessman: No.

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Body Positive Fitness: The weight. Exactly.

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Body Positive Fitness: No.

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Body Positive Fitness: yes, you want it. You want someone who's gonna be able to articulate to you how unique the Kettlebell is in order for you to use it as safely as possible. But I want to do that from a lens where you're not constantly like hyper vigilant. I don't want to create a sense of fear like it's gonna hurt me. And if I don't do it right, pick it up. Put it down. It's okay.

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Body Positive Fitness: You, you will be okay, and as you want to progress, you know, get a coach

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Body Positive Fitness: Or start a class join a class that is specifically a Kettlebell class

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Body Positive Fitness: Not just a strength class where they said, I'm adding, I'm swapping in a Kettlebell, but a Kettlebell class and build from there

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Ela Law: Right, yeah.

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Christine Chessman: And you can. Things like goblet carries are so underrated like where you're literally carrying them like. So I do that with clients to warm up. We do walks with kettlebells, and we kind of sometimes do a heavier weight in one hand and lighter in the other. If they do have any kind of imbalance in their shoulders or their hips. And it's just really interesting and a very. Do you know what I mean? So you don't. You can start as Dimali saying, nice and

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Christine Chessman: simple. You don't have to go straight for your snatches and

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Body Positive Fitness: Please don't go straight

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Ela Law: What is a snatch? Now, I've heard this. I've listened to some of your podcast interviews, tamali. And I've heard Christine talk about what is a snatch. Sorry I have to just know now

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Body Positive Fitness: So a Kettlebell snatch is different from a Barbell snatch, so a Barbell snatch is an Olympic weightlifting exercise. But with Kettlebell you can do a single hand.

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Body Positive Fitness: Kettlebell, snatch. It's really just a power ballistic, slow speed and power movement to bring a weight from the ground to overhead. So you want to get

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Ela Law: Like that

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Body Positive Fitness: Kettlebell straight overhead. No pausing in between, from down to up as fast as possible

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Body Positive Fitness: as possible. So we're leveraging. Yes, it's it is actually, quite, quite, quite complex, because we're leveraging a lot of biomechanics in order to efficiently get the Kettlebell to travel overhead. That's what it is.

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Ela Law: Right. Thank you so much. I have been puzzled by that term, and now I know, and I appreciate that. Thank you.

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Christine Chessman: You know, when I when I'm trying to sell Kettlebells to clients because they're like, why should I get a Kettlebell instead of a dumbbell. I always use your terminology, Damalia, which is about this big, unstable ball of metal which creates stability in your body. The amount of times I've used that because it makes sense to me, because it's so, it's got that off center mass or offset center of mass. So it

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Body Positive Fitness: Yes.

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Christine Chessman: Is unstable. So by means of that it is creating that stability, doing the bottoms up press like so good for

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Body Positive Fitness: Right.

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Christine Chessman: Shoulder stability. And so they're very versatile bits of kit.

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Christine Chessman: you know. It's Ella will talk afterwards

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Ela Law: We will. Yes.

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Christine Chessman: But yeah.

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Body Positive Fitness: I,

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Body Positive Fitness: just because they they are something that are generally unstable, that help you to bring stability into your body. I think we did talk the last time. And I always say that body is a community like you are pulling the community in, as you learn tension techniques, you're uniting your community. And although it's like this

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Body Positive Fitness: ball of metal creates instability, it allows you to experience stability in such a different way. So that's why I love them.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, so good. And and we were gonna talk to you a little we've got. Let's see how long we've. Oh, goodness! I can talk, can't I

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Body Positive Fitness: Okay, well, we could talk.

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Christine Chessman: I sort of sent you some questions which we've not got to at all. But I wanted to talk to you about not feeling at home in our bodies as we navigate changes through perimenopause and beyond. I know that you were very open on Instagram, and sharing your story about your own hysterectomy just over a year ago to Mali

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Body Positive Fitness: Yeah, just a year ago.

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Christine Chessman: I'm just really interested to know how since then have you navigated 1st of all your recovery, but also changes to hormones your body, how you feel in your body, how that's been for you. If you would be comfortable sharing that

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Body Positive Fitness: Yeah, no, absolutely. I think.

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Body Positive Fitness: The more that we share our stories, the more we're able to connect in community. And then the more let fewer people are gonna feel alone.

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Body Positive Fitness: I was still surprised. Like I I think, even as I said, at the amount of people who even today they'll be like they'll send me a DM. And like, Oh, I'm gonna have the surgery next week, or Oh, you know, I found out I need it, or oh, I did mine 10 years ago, and I'm like I didn't know that and known each other for however long. So just having those open conversations

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Body Positive Fitness: body change is human.

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Body Positive Fitness: We start like with body. Change is human. Bodies are have always been diverse. No, everybody is as unique. There's like these beauty standards that push us into. There's only one

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Body Positive Fitness: beauty or one way to look. They don't work, they don't work for any of us. It does not benefit any of us.

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Body Positive Fitness: So I would say, you know, just going through childhood and thinking about puberty. Perimenopause is like where it's suddenly like this shock like of why.

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Body Positive Fitness: like, what does the hormones like? Hormonal changes? Different smells, you know whether it's sweating, whether it's, you know, changes in your body. So it's like a whole other experience like that. I had fibroids for many, many years. I had very painful periods. A lot of

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Body Positive Fitness: bleeding from that, and came to realize that perimenopause really kicked pick, kicked that up like way over a notch

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Body Positive Fitness: so it was really frustrating, especially as a

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Body Positive Fitness: coach fitness coach to see and feel like certain limitations in my capabilities. And how do I navigate that? I'm so grateful for again, and for having found a trauma informed lens for my teaching, because

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Body Positive Fitness: that really helped me to see my body's changes differently, and to be able to navigate and process. How I'm still an exceptional coach, whether I'm gaining weight, whether I have limitations because I'm

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Body Positive Fitness: I have like loss of blood, and I'm exhausted with an anemic, you know. These are the things that I was going through. So definitely coming to

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Body Positive Fitness: the hysterectomy I was given. I had 5 days notice

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Christine Chessman: Oh!

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Ela Law: Wow!

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Body Positive Fitness: So in Canada we can be on wait list for quite a while, as we have. We do have free healthcare means that everybody has it. So I was told it was gonna be 9 to 10 months

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Body Positive Fitness: for the surgery. But then a cancellation came

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Body Positive Fitness: and given that I didn't have a date for the potential surgery. It was a question of like, do I just do this now, or do I wait until on the list until I know what's gonna happen. And so I just accepted it all and said, I've been living through this trying to navigate like a different quality of life, or what I felt was lower quality of life, you know, with

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Body Positive Fitness: period panties and and pads and things coming out the Zoo so I decided to go ahead and do the surgery.

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Body Positive Fitness: It was a total hysterectomy. So they removed the uterus cervix and Fallopian tubes

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Christine Chessman: Wow!

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Body Positive Fitness: Have my ovaries. So that means I still have a cycle. That means I still have hormonal changes, perimenopause and menopause to come. I've been told, menopause will probably come earlier, but I still have it so. Then you know, one of those things that you have to now be aware of is like, I don't have a menstruation, so I don't actually get to manage monitoring through menstruation

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Body Positive Fitness: My hormones.

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Body Positive Fitness: So that's something that I've had to come kind of

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Body Positive Fitness: into grips with like. Oh, so how do I know what's happening to me right now. But I I did feel my physical like.

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Body Positive Fitness: Recovery was pretty good for me. I was seeing a pelvic floor physical therapist for a year before managing the symptoms I had previously, and I had had a myomectomy the year before, which is a surgery to remove fibroids. So they had gone surgically removed. Fibroids. But it wasn't effective for all of my conditions.

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Body Positive Fitness: So I think that kind of prepped me as well to be ready for the pelvic floor work that I would need to do. But that stability, that breath work that we do, and Kettlebell training and really learning to

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Body Positive Fitness: breathe with your pelvic floor, and your diaphragm working together is essential to your recovery when it comes to a surgery like a hysterectomy. So I will definitely encourage all those the caries getting to be able to manage pressure internally. Those were all practices that I went like straight into following my surgery in order to support my recovery.

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Body Positive Fitness: You know, they're gonna say, just like after childbirth is, oh, you can't lift anything over 10 pounds, and it's like, but my backpack is 10 pounds. But like, what do you mean like?

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Body Positive Fitness: Does that work? So, being able to understand what your capacity is for you, to be able to have a system that allows you to walk through. So I really do lean on my progressive Kettlebell work. So, starting with Carrie, starting with breath work, starting with tension, localizing that, then moving into hinging so that I can actually manage my intra-abdominal pressure, hinging, like all those things.

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Body Positive Fitness: supported me along the journey to coming to here. Am. I like

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Body Positive Fitness: feeling like oh, I'm recovered. Yes, like physically, I would say, like I'm recovered. But I think that there was also like an emotional journey alongside that I'd say I didn't appreciate that there would be like a grieving process

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Christine Chessman: Hmm.

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Body Positive Fitness: Side of it. My interpretation of like this thing is evil, so just get it out. Was kind of where I was sitting, but then, after it was like, Oh, like

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Body Positive Fitness: this, this is an organ like this is, it's been my body, my whole life, and it's been is being removed. And how do I feel now? And how do people interpret? Like who I am without a uterus, for example?

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Body Positive Fitness: Yeah, yeah. So there was. There's a. There was a lot to navigate emotionally

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Christine Chessman: Recovery from surgery, I'm sure, is just. I mean, I've never really had a surgery like that. But yeah, it's just. It's very to me. It's something that we need to talk about more, and I really appreciate you taking the time to chat about it. And you know especially about the work with the pelvic floor, and how you can use strength, training can actually really help with that especially managing that intra-abdominal pressure. I have so many clients who struggle with pelvic floor.

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Christine Chessman: And just think it's that! Well, that's just the way it is.

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Christine Chessman: You know I'm over 40. I'm over 50. That's just the way it is, and it doesn't have to be. And it's really refreshing to hear how actually, after your surgery, you're like, right, let's start. Let's work on this. Let's kind of rather than just accepting. That's how it is. You know that

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Christine Chessman: that we have a little bit more.

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Christine Chessman: What's the agency? The agency

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Ela Law: Yes.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Ela Law: Yeah. And also, I think what you just said is quite interesting, because I think that used to be

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Ela Law: the sort of popular opinion like, okay, when we're hitting perimenopause menopause, everything's downhill. Nothing we can do about it. It's probably part of a patriarchal kind of way of looking at things because there's not been any research done as to well, how can we actually make it work for us? What can we actually do to, you know, stay, fit and recover from these things. What can we do to navigate

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Ela Law: all of these symptoms that we're experiencing? It's

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Body Positive Fitness: I see.

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Ela Law: You know, it's slowly, I think, getting into people's minds that actually, there is stuff we can do. And there's stuff we can do to prepare whether it is a hysterectomy, whether it is just the sort of normal body changes that we go through as we age, but I think it's still quite sort of in its infancy, isn't it? Because, you know, no one's really bothered looking into it until quite recently.

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Body Positive Fitness: Right. I think that there's a lot of conversation about perimenopause and menopause that's coming up. And I think it's really important. People are starting to understand or really understand, that losing muscle mass as you, age is a reality, and it is a concerning reality. And you're

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Body Positive Fitness: bones need load. You want to maintain your bone density, improve your bone density as you age like. These are all areas that have not had the focus. It's all been on the diet, industry, and fat loss, when your accessibility to balance your mobility, your strength, your you know, carrying groceries, until

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Body Positive Fitness: throughout your whole life this is about you managing your muscle mass, and include increasing your bone density. And we want to be able to have

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Body Positive Fitness: that choice to really invest in our bodies, and look at longevity from a different lens, from just being fit

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Christine Chessman: And you know, on that note we were talking about the pressure on women over 40 to strength train. I know that sounds

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Christine Chessman: what's the word I'm looking for, and I am a great advocate for strength training over 40, especially massively so, and the benefits are huge. But I've had a number of people. I did a post saying, It seems like that. There's too much rhetoric saying, you have to train this way, or you're not doing it right and a number. I got the biggest response I think I've ever had

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Christine Chessman: on a post with people going. Thank you for saying that because I feel so much pressure to strength train, and I don't like it, and I'm really struggling to do it. And it's I think so. What I was thinking it felt like it was getting a bit diet culturey. Some of the rhetoric out there. It's like, unless you're doing this. This. This nothing you're doing is worthwhile. And I think for some people.

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Christine Chessman: 1st of all, they don't realize how they could access strength training, because I think there's a way in for everybody. But also, if you are moving, and in a sustainable way, there's also huge benefits to that

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Body Positive Fitness: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: I don't know

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Body Positive Fitness: Capitalism sucks capitalism, sucks.

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Christine Chessman: Same.

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Body Positive Fitness: I believe that what we end up seeing it's as you said, die culture is wine system of oppression. And so we start to see the pattern of those systems manifesting themselves in other systems in other areas as well as oftentimes even the language

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Body Positive Fitness: of liberation gets co-opted in different places. So we're like confused like, now, we're getting like this kind of punishing message about what's supposed to be liberation for our bodies in terms of strength training

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Body Positive Fitness: like if you don't do it like now we're adding in the fear and fear mongering. And now we're adding in, so this is where I would really say, like people look need to look at the book.

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Body Positive Fitness: the origins of cast. So you want to look at how we create hierarchies. We want to notice and dismantle these hierarchies in health, in wellness, in fitness that are being that are being created, as I said, about Kettlebells. The same reason why I'm not going to stand at the top and be like Kettlebells are the best. You don't Kettlebells, you are not anything

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Body Positive Fitness: it is like. I want to make Kettlebells more accessible to more people. I also understand the Kettlebells might not fit for the person I want you to have the knowledge and education, you know. Eat, get your protein like, you know, have the knowledge and education of what's going to benefit you, and realize that not everything is going to work for everybody.

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Body Positive Fitness: when it comes to strength training absolutely. Muscle. I mean, bones need a mechanical load that we want to talk about the bones and they there's a lot of hormonal response when it comes to strength training that benefits us.

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Body Positive Fitness: Growth hormone to get that growth hormone so that you can build the bones you want, so you can build the more muscle that you want, and that is done under load. How you look, how you load is. It could be anything, anything that's heavy, anything. So if you're not enjoying one thing, you want to try something else. Now, movement is the destination that I think that's where we started at the beginning. That's what I'm going to go back to

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Body Positive Fitness: So I I believe that Kettlebells are for everybody, but movement is the destination. So if it's a choice, or on a slope when somebody is just beginning or beginning again. And they say, you know what I really like hiking. That's something that brings me joy.

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Body Positive Fitness: I'm not gonna say, well, you should be doing the Kettlebell like

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Body Positive Fitness: Go and do that, go and do that, and as get more freedom in their body, I will still ask that you you try to explore, try to explore different types of movement, and how you can get more load as you age. But if if you feel like the strict version or the type of thing that's being called strength. Training is not for you, then it's probably not for you. You are the expert of your body.

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Ela Law: There's also probably quite a lot of misconception as to what strength strength training involves. You know you just have that sort of stereotypical Barbell kind of

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Ela Law: image in your mind. But when you just said, Oh, if you enjoy hiking, I mean, there's things that even whatever we enjoy, we can adapt that and add a bit of load to it. You know you just have a heavier racksack, or you just add some ankle weights when you're going on your walk, or you know, there's stuff that we can do to modify, I suppose, to get the strength training into the exercises and the movement that we actually do enjoy right?

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Body Positive Fitness: Yeah, the spectrum of humans that we use the spectrum of movement options. There are

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Body Positive Fitness: And variations that there are available. What I would say is, you know, as much as I love a good Barbell workout. You can't put a barbell in your backpack. You can't put a kettlebell in your backpack, though, so

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Body Positive Fitness: you know, and that's an object. Carry carry the weight on your back. If it's if it swings or not for you, you're gonna go ruck. You can bring a Kettlebell out with you as well. You want to get some overhead movement again. We're getting to like areas where coaching will help you out so that you understand that you are getting access to like all functional movements. And you're staying strong in all those areas, stability.

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Body Positive Fitness: stability, your agility, your core stability. So there's a lot of different ways that we can move. I think the more variation that you have in your life.

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Body Positive Fitness: the better that goes for food that goes for movement

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Christine Chessman: Do you know, Ella, I had this really funny thing where the postman delivered my new Kettlebell, if I told you that story?

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Christine Chessman: And he arrived at the door with this Kettlebell, and he's like, Oh, sweetheart, it's really heavy. So be careful. It's really.

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Christine Chessman: And I just like took it off and went. Thanks. Yeah, thanks. I'll be all right. But

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Ela Law: Crazy.

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Christine Chessman: You know the idea that. Oh, there's no way I'd be able to lift that

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Body Positive Fitness: Yes.

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Christine Chessman: And it's yeah, anyway, that aside to Mali, I have had the best conversation with you. I'm so glad we recorded what you said, because there were so many beautiful ways you you spoke about

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Ela Law: Hmm.

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Christine Chessman: The inclusivity element, but also the why you like Kettlebells and the destination of movement will sit with me. That was amazing. But I'd love to ask what is coming up for you? What have you got coming up in the next few months? What are you working on at the minute, and how can we work with you?

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Body Positive Fitness: So, as I said, like, I started off in my journey with, you know, everyday athletes and martial artists. And now my goal is really to broaden the scope, so that our coaching practice includes kettlebells, so that at your your local big box gym, those Kettlebells are not just sitting in the corner, collecting dust.

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Body Positive Fitness: know how to use them to do more, but also to do it safely and in in an empowering way. So Coaches Corner is where I have my inclusive Kettlebell coach

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Body Positive Fitness: certification. So if you want to become an inclusive Kettlebell coach and get certified June is when I'll be opening up the next cohort for that program. It is a 6 month program. So in that case we are doing use cases together or practicing together over time.

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Body Positive Fitness: We're exploring trauma informed, weightlifting, and what trauma is, and we're really looking a little bit more deeply beyond just the exercises to how we queue to how we navigate the

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Body Positive Fitness: coaching world, including our marketing, and how we can make sure. That is, it is as inclusive as possible. But that's really my journey is to broaden the community of coaches who have an inclusive approach to Kettlebell, teaching

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Ela Law: Sounds amazing. We'll link to that in the show notes. So if anyone's interested in joining that, they can get in touch with you.

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Christine Chessman: Thank you. Thank you so much, Tamale. We've run over only by like 10 or more minutes. Sorry. But

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Christine Chessman: but it's always gonna happen. Let's

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Ela Law: Yeah, we're the Queen of

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Christine Chessman: Yeah. But thank you, Dimali, and we might do a part 3 in the near future.

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Body Positive Fitness: Thank you so much