Creating Safe Fitness Spaces for Marginalised Genders

Creating an inclusive and safe space for everyone to explore movement and work out can be challenging - Trey Joseph took on that challenge and through his own experience of living in a marginalised body as a transgender man and learning how to coach from a trauma informed lens he is DOING JUST THAT!

We had such a great conversation with Trey and chatted with him about

- how he came to his inclusive approach to fitness 

- his new coaching programme

- what is needed for people to feel safe in the spaces they exercise in

- why we could all do with a bit of dancing 

Trey is a strength and fitness coach, personal trainer, and behaviour change specialist who’s all-in on making exercise enjoyable, accessible, and inclusive.

As a queer, transgender man who transitioned later in life, he knows what it’s like to live in a marginalised body—and how intimidating working out can feel, especially when you're just starting or don’t feel at home in mainstream fitness spaces.

What Trey loves most about working out is how it supports his mental and emotional health, and he wholeheartedly believes that everyone deserves the freedom and resources to move their body in a way that’s right for them. That’s why his coaching style is client-centred, compassion-led, and designed to build confidence, and every workout he coaches is designed to feel safe, fun, and zero-pressure.

He’s one third of the Strength Crew coaching team (along with his wife Emma and dog Dexy), offers online fitness classes as well as 1:1 sessions, and you can chat to him on IG at @trey_strengthcrew

Please reach out if you would like some support with your relationship to food OR movement. Ela currently has limited spaces for Intuitive Eating coaching and if you'd like to reconnect with movement, contact Christine.

AND if you enjoyed this episode, please share and follow the 'Find Your Strong podcast' and if you have time, write us a short review. It would honestly mean the world. Love to you all, Ela & Christine x

Transcript

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Christine Chessman: Welcome, trey! How are you?

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Trey: I'm very good. Thanks.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, we are very excited to have you here, aren't we, Ella?

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Ela Law: Oh, yes, very excited. We'd love to talk to you about everything that you do, because it is absolutely wonderful. So should we go straight into it. And can you tell us a little bit about the strength crew.

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Trey: Oh, yeah, okay, well, it's a work in progress. So like, it's evolving, it's evolving by the day.

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Trey: So strength crew is basically online classes, and it will be personal training as well. Because Emma, my wife, is on board and she enjoys personal training, so there'll be some one-to-one stuff. But my vibe is very much going to be about doing classes. So strength classes, and I'm going to try and do

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Trey: strength classes that you can do either body weight or with a band, or with a Kettlebell or a dumbbell all at once. Basically. So I'm not sure how I'm going to demonstrate all of that all at the same time. But I think it's possible. Yeah, it's possible, because I just want people to be able to come with whatever they've got, and then just be able to do a half hour strength workout

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Trey: using whatever they happen to have around like, even if it's a water bottle, or

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Trey: whatever doesn't really matter, because I've always been of the mind that

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Trey: we don't need any extra barriers when it comes to exercise. So you know how people sometimes are like, Oh, I haven't got the right kit. It's like we don't actually need any, or if it's a Kettlebell class, it's like I haven't got a Kettlebell, but I have got a resistance band. It's like, cool. Bring bring along

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Trey: and mix and match. So yeah, so there'll be that. And then we're going to do some kind of cardio classes and getting cardio off. So, Christine, this is basically inspired by your cozy cardio.

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Trey: Okay, had never ever come across before in my life.

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Trey: But just you know how Cardio tends to live just as a stationary bike, slash, rowing machine slash, cross trainer type.

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Christine Chessman: Hmm.

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Trey: Vibe, and it doesn't need to. It can just be you

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Trey: in the middle of the room.

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Trey: like just moving around in all all different directions. And I think that's really something that

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Trey: we need to be more. We do need to do more, because

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Trey: it's kind of revolutionary. Really, I think.

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Trey: because usually you just you'd only really do that kind of movement in warm-ups. But like, you can actually make an entire class out of it, mixing kickboxing and stuff. So there'll be that.

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Trey: And then mobility work. Because I definitely notice as I'm getting older, that if I don't attend to my own mobility.

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Trey: yeah, stuff tends to hurt a bit more.

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Christine Chessman: 2 of all those 3,

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Christine Chessman: and we had that just before we hit record, we were talking all about age and and how we feel about movement as we age. The cozy cardio interestingly came from. It was, I think, an influencer online who had.

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Christine Chessman: who had coined the phrase cozy Cardio, and what she did was get like her favorite drink, and like spent ages making this like hazelnut drink, hazelnut, latte drink, and then got her favorite show on the TV and had like a walking machine. So it wasn't even a treadmill. It was something that she could walk on, and she did that for half an hour every day, and just made it as cozy for herself as possible. And I love that.

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Ela Law: I think that's great. I think it's very accessible for anybody who's not actually been into exercise or movement. It feels like a really safe way to get into it, because it's not the sort of you know, Leotard hit workout kind of crew. It's very much like, well, just get your heart rate up a little bit, and just move and do something that is actually enjoyable. I love that so much, and also what you just said about

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Ela Law: do whatever you can with whatever you've got available.

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Trey: Hmm.

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Ela Law: I love that so much because I don't have all of the gear, and I would probably not join certain classes, because I think oh, I haven't got that weight. I haven't got that. I've only got a couple of tins of beans.

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Ela Law: and being able to do the exercise with that with what I've got available would make it a lot more accessible for me personally, because I would say, Oh, okay, I can join in. Then I don't have to go out and spend 200 quid on exercise equipment. So I love that it makes it a lot more accessible

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Ela Law: for people to join that sort of class.

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Trey: I've always been interested in making things more accessible because I think the fitness industry does tend to be like. Well, it has to be done in this way when I was coming up as a sort of a you know, 1st off in personal training, which is

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Trey: nearly 20 years ago. It was very much taught to me in one way.

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Trey: as soon as I started training like actual people, I realized, well, you've given me the ideal you've given me the textbook human that doesn't exist. I don't think I've ever met anyone that I had coached via the textbook examples. Yeah, because as soon as you start working with people you realize there are.

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Trey: there's back pain. And there's chronic stress. And there's I had a bad day, and you know, emotional kind of inputs and my toe hurts, which is my thing at the moment.

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Trey: and people would walk into the gym, where I was

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Trey: waiting to be their personal trainer for the hour, and I would have a plan written out, and then, as soon as I met them and asked them how they were doing, and how their day had been, I'd have to rewrite my whole plan.

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Trey: Come up right that I wouldn't have locked it in.

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Trey: And so I just think accessibility is

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Trey: is enormous, and I don't think kind of it's attended to that much

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Trey: in Gyms. My gym that I used to work in was up 2 flights of stairs.

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Trey: so you know, and it had the turnstiles. So it's failed twice on accessibility. As soon as you even walk through the door.

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Ela Law: Gosh!

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Trey: Right.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Trey: And it just used to annoy me.

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Christine Chessman: I can't have it. I really struggle with a gym. There's a gym that I was a member of for a while, which had a little locked entrance thing where you went through the 1st door, and you're in this little tight area with, if you had a rucksack on your back you couldn't literally, you could hardly go in. So anybody who wasn't in a straight size body could not get in through that door, so they'd have to ring a different. It just really pissed me off. Sorry? Oh, I can say that.

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Ela Law: Can. It's our, podcast as you can see, whatever you want.

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Trey: I'm gonna check. Actually, are we allowed to.

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Christine Chessman: Oh, a hundred percent.

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Christine Chessman: Oh, yeah.

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Christine Chessman: And we encourage it. In fact.

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Trey: Oh, very good, cool, but now it used to do my head in as well.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Trey: And even so, I'm 1 of the things I used to do is I used to coach coaches, and would write some of the curriculum for that as well, and we had this whole module about as soon as you say like, I'm going to make an accommodation in this workout. The person is like, well, okay, you have to accommodate me.

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Trey: and I'm like, I don't ever want to make anyone feel like they're being accommodated. Exercise should accommodate from the very get go!

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Christine Chessman: Hmm.

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Trey: And there's a lot of language, I think, in fitness that immediately makes people feel like othered or.

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Christine Chessman: Yes.

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Trey: Pushed to the sidelines. It's like this isn't for you, but we'll make it for you by putting in some accommodations, and I never liked that.

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Trey: So

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Trey: yeah, I kind of want everything I do to be as open as possible from the very start, so that no one ever comes in thinking, am I supposed to be here.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Trey: You are. You're very welcome.

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Trey: And that's that's the vibe I'm going for.

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Christine Chessman: Love that that's brilliant is that you? Said.

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Ela Law: Sorry.

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Christine Chessman: I think I don't know if you've always had that mindset, or if that's something that has.

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Ela Law: That's what I was going to ask, Chris.

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Trey: In sync.

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Ela Law: Great minds.

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Christine Chessman: At the beginning when you kind of just trend, were you, I mean, how long did it take you to go? Oh, hold on. I can't just do this blue, this particular template and work out with everybody. I need to absolutely tailor it to every individual depending on their day. What's going on with them.

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Trey: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: Did that come?

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Trey: From the very 1st set of clients I had like. So the very 1st client I had.

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Trey: Didn't tell me that she was dealing with quite a serious chronic health condition.

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Trey: because she thought I would not train her because of it, and that was the very 1st client I had. It took her about 6 months to actually tell me even you know, we'd done the park, you and everything like that. And we had a really good relationship, but she was just worried that I wouldn't allow her to train with me if

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Trey: if I knew that she had this condition and and she was quite in terms of like the things she could do. I remember I did have a very

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Trey: traditional program. You know how we kind of like you start with the bigger muscles, and you work down to the smaller muscles, and you do all of that stuff. And we worked in this really little

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Trey: gym. It was like a boutique gym in the back of Worcester.

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Trey: and so we kind of had quite limited equipment. But it was very traditional, but just working with her. I'm like.

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Trey: well, I'm having to do all sorts of things that don't fit what the textbooks say. And so I found I was a bit flummoxed by it. The fact that kind of the textbook and my training had taught me to do it this way. But it didn't really fit when I was trying to apply it to a human.

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Trey: So as soon as

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Trey: I started, I noticed that because every client I had was completely different. So I had one guy I remember training him, and he had.

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Trey: like his ability to connect with his body was quite was wasn't as well developed as someone like me. I've been doing sports and stuff since I was a kid, and so I would say, if you put you try and put your weight into your heels. And he did this.

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Trey: And I'm like, that's really interesting. I'm not sure why the shoulders have suddenly evolved themselves when we're trying to work with the heels. But okay, and everything that he tried. I could see him trying really hard to do what I was asking, and it would always come out in a really unusual manifestation.

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Trey: Wow, so I was like, so, yeah, every client teaches you something, don't they?

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Christine Chessman: Every.

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Trey: How you practice what you do.

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Trey: But then, yeah, certainly, in in

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Trey: recent years my awareness has accelerated towards more

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Trey: more diversity and kind of how I work with different communities and so on. It's definitely come on much more in the last few years.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah. And do you want to tell us a bit more about that shay, and who you kind of work with, and why it's so important to you, and.

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Trey: Yeah, so when I so I was started coaching around 2,007, 2,007,

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Trey: get my dates mixed up.

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Trey: Yeah, 2,007, just on my own, just coaching, like on the side. I work for local government as you do.

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Christine Chessman: It's just.

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Trey: Coaching on the side.

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Trey: whoever I could kind of, you know, find to work with in my community. And then I went to work for a big box gym and gave up my local government career and became a personal trainer. Full time. And I was very traditional personal trainer. So, like I worked in the usual spaces that personal trainers worked in right, the usual kinds of population, the usual types of goals.

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Trey: and then I got a job working for an online coaching company.

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Trey: and worked with them for quite a long time for about 6 or 7 years, coaching coaches and coaching people and writing curriculum, and doing all sorts of things like that. And and I was still pretty much in the kind of traditional spaces, although my coaching

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Trey: abilities were growing, and I was much more working outside of what we see is

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Trey: traditional and personal training. And I became like a compassion based coach and someone who kind of. I was much more interested in how to build confidence in movement than I was anything else like I was really interested in

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Trey: how you help people develop those kind of cognitive skills that support what they're doing from a movement perspective and emotional skills and stuff like that.

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Trey: And then I left that company

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Christine Chessman: Partly because I got married redundant. So there was that. Yeah.

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Trey: That was part of why I left, but I left my coaching role there because I transitioned, and I couldn't coach there because I coached women, because that company women coach women and men coached men. And so, as when I transitioned

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Trey: from female to male.

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Trey: which is, let's not get into that book that whole can of worms about whether that's the correct phrase, but meant I couldn't stay in my coaching career, and also

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Trey: you can't. I don't think. Well, I couldn't

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Trey: go through such a heavy emotional process and continue holding space for people's.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Trey: Emotions and needs and complex change processes that they were going through.

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Christine Chessman: Just.

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Trey: Wasn't going to work, so I backed right off from coaching and stopped coaching for about 2 years.

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Christine Chessman: This thing.

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Trey: And then, when I came back into it, like my entire world has changed.

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Christine Chessman: I'm not living in the same world, and I'm not the same person as I was.

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Trey: Even though everyone there's quite a lot of people who will say things like, Oh, you're the same, and you're the same person as you were, I don't see why I'd have any issue with you, and you're like I'm not the same person.

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Trey: and nothing about me is the same.

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Trey: And something about transitioning for me that was really interesting is how it changed my brain.

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Trey: So things don't look the same to me. Things don't feel the same.

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Christine Chessman: Wow!

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Trey: And some of those things are very understandable.

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Trey: So it's a very stressful process.

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Trey: very stressful at the moment, anyway, living in the world as a transgender person.

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Trey: And so there's the impact of chronic stress right on my brain. That's something I've noticed. I can't concentrate as well

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Trey: kind of neurodiverse traits that I've always had have kind of been become much more prominent.

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Christine Chessman: Hmm.

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Trey: And so I suddenly started seeing the world from

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Trey: a different perspective, because I had challenges that I didn't necessarily realize I had before, like they were there, but I was

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Trey: able to move through them differently.

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Trey: But also my sense of justice, just like shot up.

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Trey: And regular level, like a regular high level, to extremely high level, and now I find it

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Trey: impossible not to see it when it presents itself. And so then, when I started to look at the fitness industry with that perspective, I'm like, Oh, look at all this stuff that I wasn't noticing before.

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Trey: So that was quite a big thing. And you see parallels. So there's parallels between

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Trey: transgender community and all other marginalized communities, right? So into, especially within.

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Trey: You see it in the fitness industry as a little microcosm.

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Trey: And I started to notice I wasn't comfortable going into the gym

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Trey: anymore. I've always been comfortable in gyms, and I was the one who would take people into the weight room and just be like this is our space. We are allowed to use this, and people would come and work with me if they wanted to feel more confident. Accessing the weights room, which was really small in the gym. I was in

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Trey: like this tiny little enclosed space that felt very claustrophobic, and it was very ego heavy in there.

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Trey: Okay.

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Trey: as soon as you set foot in it, and I used to just march in there and be like, Come on.

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Trey: we're using this squat rack, and I would anyone who are doing the nerve to suggest that me and my clients weren't supposed to be in there. And actually, what I found was most of the people in there were absolutely fine. Every now and then you get someone with a bit of an ego trip. But, generally speaking, everyone was okay. It was more a perception thing. But now I don't want to set foot in the weight room. I've been to Gyms recently. I don't want to be in there because

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Trey: there's a period you go through where you're like. I'm not sure if I'm

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Trey: successfully passing within these gender norms that are being demonstrated in this space, and I don't know if I'm

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Trey: if I'm giving off the right. I don't know vibes here.

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Christine Chessman: Hmm.

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Trey: And also I don't feel at home. There, that's not my space, that's not. I don't vibe with any of the kind of

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Trey: atmosphere in those spaces anymore. And I just don't feel comfortable. I don't feel comfortable in changing rooms.

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Trey: you know, and I started to.

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Trey: because I started to be aware of that in my own life

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Trey: I've become much more aware of it in the lives of other people who may have different reasons for not enjoying those spaces.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Trey: So yeah, that's that's kind of it. In a nutshell

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Trey: houses. There.

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Ela Law: Yeah, but that must make you incredibly compassionate.

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Christine Chessman: Hmm.

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Ela Law: To what your clients might be experiencing on whatever level they're experiencing it, because yours is up there. As you said. You know, you've got such a heightened sense of justice or injustice whatever you know, whichever way we look at it, so do you feel like those spaces? Is it mostly the fact that you don't really.

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Ela Law: as you said, you're not vibing with the kind of people that go to those spaces anymore. Is it? Is there a sense of

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Ela Law: thought that you wouldn't be accepted in those spaces as someone who

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Ela Law: has the right to use it just like everybody else. Can you speak to that.

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Ela Law: Yeah, aspect of that is sort of dominant for for you.

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Trey: Think it's both.

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Ela Law: Huh!

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Trey: So.

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Trey: It's I don't. The the herd I run with.

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Trey: and the people I feel most at home with are queer and trans people, and we don't know

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Trey: where each other are usually, but I can probably fairly safely say that I'm the only person in any gym space at any given time where I well, certainly where I live, but even in a bigger city. So when I go back to Worcester.

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Trey: The odds are given. You know that we're sort of

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Trey: that trans men are 0 point

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Trey: 0 4% of the population generally, 0 point 1% of the population. If I'm in a room, I'm probably on my own.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Trey: So it's largely the fact that

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Trey: my kind of community aren't there.

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Ela Law: Hmm.

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Trey: It's also the fact, especially now, as the world is getting more hostile.

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Trey: But I don't know if I'm safe there not, and so, therefore I have to

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Trey: make sure that I'm covering my back.

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Trey: So I tend to wear like things which will mark me out. But if I, as soon as I go into a toilet or go into a space, I'll either take it off or turn it over. Because

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Trey: there there are certain safety needs I have before. I will kind of mark myself out.

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Ela Law: No.

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Trey: I won't be doing that in any gyms unless it's a queer gym. Specifically.

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Trey: I've never. I don't have one of those where I live, and I don't know where the nearest one is, I think probably London, probably, or Brighton.

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Trey: miles from that.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Trey: So yeah, I think it's definitely like, if I well, I wouldn't be taking my shirt off in a in a guy's changing room.

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Trey: Because, you know, I have top surgery scars that run from one armpit to the other.

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Trey: So oh, I would draw attention, probably, and I don't know if the attention I would draw would be

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Trey: fist bumps and good for you, man, or whether it would be more hostile.

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Trey: So, yeah, and even just knowing. So I don't do that. Then I put myself in that situation. But even knowing that that is a possibility tends to put me up

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Trey: going into places like that. And

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Trey: yeah, I'm definitely not the only person.

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Christine Chessman: No.

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Trey: And my reasons are not the only reasons why you draw attention in a Gym. Space that isn't very kind.

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Trey: I remember all my clients used to be worried about people looking at them.

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Ela Law: Hmm, hmm.

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Trey: And making judgments on them, and making judgments on what they were capable of, you know.

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Trey: and I've always been very sensitive to that, and very protective.

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Trey: But now I'm just about a thousand times more.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: I 1st of all you should come. Live in Brighton, please.

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Christine Chessman: Brightness.

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Trey: What about it?

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Christine Chessman: Nowhere is perfect. But certainly it's quite an open place. I think we're.

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Christine Chessman: It's I'm very happy to live here, that's all. And I was going to say that I've started boxing recently, which is brilliant. But I work with this trainer who runs a gym called Team Queen, and she is passionate about opening that space for marginalized groups. So works with queer people. Trans. People, non-binary, gender, nonconforming and straight people, if

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Christine Chessman: if they're inclusive, and if they are. And it was a really interesting. The 1st time that I came I was like, I wasn't sure. Is it okay? Because I'm straight and

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Christine Chessman: and she's like, Oh, oh, we should put it on the website. So it's clear. And I'm like, No, no, no, don't have to make it easier for straight people.

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Christine Chessman: It's all right. But it was just this quite different position to be in that I really enjoyed. And it's a space that I feel so

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Christine Chessman: safe in because I struggle to go into Gyms. And that's ridiculous. Given that I'm from a training background. But I really don't find them a space that I feel comfortable in at all but this one I immediately just felt so comfortable and at ease and at home, and it's so as yours. Everything that you've said. There it really is

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Christine Chessman: resonated and also touched me. What you've had to go through and how

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Christine Chessman: you can bring that experience to your clients is just

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Christine Chessman: yeah. It's I think you've got some lucky clients you'd be working with Troy.

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Trey: I think it's interesting what you say, because one of the things that one of my mentors used to say quite a lot is whenever and I've heard this in various places. But she was the one that taught it me is, whenever you make anything more accessible or more inclusive.

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Trey: It feels that way to everybody. So you kind of pick up on that vibe right? If you have to really think about how you are making your practice, accepting and loving towards people from marginalized communities that will be felt by those who

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Trey: have less marginalized identities. Even if the you know, like, we all kind of experience it in some ways right?

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Trey: And one of the things that I that's you made me think there

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Trey: I am quite conscious in in when, as I've been putting together strength crew, but just as a coach as well in how I've been

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Trey: promoting my own coaching

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Trey: services, I do. I really do want to work with more trans people and more queer people.

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Trey: And I have got a fairly strong client base in that area. But also I want to work with

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Trey: people who are cisgender. And you know of of all sexualities, basically

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Trey: heterosexual people. And because I don't feel like.

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Trey: I mean, if I'm inclusive. I'm inclusive, right?

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, yeah.

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Trey: But there then, has to be some thought given to how do I keep this space safe?

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Christine Chessman: Yes.

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Trey: And so one of the things I was thinking is in as part of my onboarding, because I want basically. What I'm saying then, is that I want to work trans people, queer people and allies.

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Christine Chessman: The only people who will be welcome in the space will be Alan.

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Trey: And to be an ally is quite an active role.

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Trey: And it's it means being active enough in your understanding of

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Trey: queer and trans identities that you don't accidentally cause harm.

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Trey: and I have accidentally had harm caused to me more times than I can even count at this point.

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Ela Law: Hmm.

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Trey: Usually by very well meaning people. But that doesn't make any difference.

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Christine Chessman: Hmm, yeah.

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Trey: Dings you out

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Trey: in ways that you have to recover from. So I was like, well, how do I do that? Then how do I make a space as safe as I can possibly make it. And one of the things I used to write as part of curriculum work is, how for coaches, how you work with queer and trans people and gender diverse people.

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Trey: And so I I will be writing something similar, which is.

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Trey: if you part of the onboarding for anyone who isn't from within the queer and trans community, but maybe also from those people, because not everyone who's in the community either knows how to be a really true ally to other people within the community is like a certain kind of just a very, very short thing on kind of allyship, and how we look after each other.

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Christine Chessman: Because it's.

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Trey: You know the the thing. Sometimes people say to you, Yeah, I just thought, Wow.

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Trey: this is the 1st time you've thought about it. And I am your Google search for the things that you don't know. And you don't seem to realize that by asking me those things you're actually causing me quite a lot of pain.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, yeah.

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Trey: I cannot have that in my class. You know what I mean, or in any community that I'm kind of leading. So I think how we think about that when we run things that we, we say are trans, inclusive and queer, inclusive. It's really important.

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Christine Chessman: Okay? Bye.

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Trey: Safe when you pull allies in, as well.

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Ela Law: Hmm.

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Christine Chessman: That's a really interesting. We had this a chat with Doris Milner. I'm not probably not saying that right last week, and she's a trauma informed Yoga teacher, and we were talking about safe spaces and what it means for her to create a safe space, and talked about consent, and talked about so many other different things. It's so important. And I love that you're

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Christine Chessman: sort of defining it. And but you know, if you're creating a space for queer and trans people and gender nonconforming people exactly that it has to be a safe space for those people.

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Trey: Hmm.

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Christine Chessman: And yeah, it's that's I. Yeah, the. It's really making me think about that. And I I like.

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Christine Chessman: I like that idea of kind of as you're onboarding.

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Christine Chessman: you know, having that. So that's that's a really interesting way to approach it. But I like that.

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Trey: Yeah, let's give it some more thought. But actually I did. I took a course, was it? Last year? Must have been the trauma informed. Weightlifting course.

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Christine Chessman: Oh!

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Trey: That course, and I thought it was really good, and thinking about consent, and one of the things that another trainer does

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Trey: who also works in a queer space. They always use the same warm up.

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Trey: be as a grounding thing, right to help people regulate and feel safe because it's like, I know this. This is something I've that's familiar to me. And I was like, Oh, that's a really good point. So yeah, making your kind of practice

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Trey: as safe as it can be for those who have. Because when you're working with the Trans community, you're working with people who have experienced a lot of trauma, and that's just how it is so.

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Trey: But I do think it's really fascinating how we use movement to

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Trey: help people either kind of express or process or move away from, so that course was like phenomenal, totally open my eyes.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, I I did them. Sorry.

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Ela Law: Sorry. Yeah, I'm just thinking, movement is, it can be so healing. But it can. Also, if you don't do it right. In a sense. It can also be quite triggering. Right? So, having that trauma informed lens in whatever you do, I suppose, given the communities that you, you sort of encourage to join your sessions. You need to be extra aware of that, don't you?

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Trey: All right.

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Ela Law: Sure that there isn't anything in there that could potentially be unsafe.

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Trey: Yeah. And it will be. It's tricky. Because obviously one person might come in needing to kind of release rage and another person might come in needing to find comfort.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Trey: So the the movements need to be versatile enough that you can do that.

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Ela Law: So how do you handle that? Then do you give people loads of options? Or do you say, look this, this is what we're doing next? Do you sort of

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Ela Law: describe what's going to happen next, and say, do this if it feels safe, don't do it. Do this instead. How do you approach that because you're right, you know. So 2 people might come in needing completely different things in the same session. So that sounds quite challenging to me to deal with that as a coach.

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Trey: Yeah, I think it is. And and yes, I give a lot of options, because then, because also you well, I think you always do as a coach right? Because you kind of not sure who's coming with what.

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Ela Law: And.

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Trey: And

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Trey: So even if I'm just doing a regular regular strength session.

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Trey: I will have to give options for people whose knees are sore today, or people whose knees are sore always, or people whose hips aren't quite as mobile, or people who have like, you know, their back is hurting, or they have a back injury. And so you're constantly given options, and it kind of the same bucket.

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Trey: But I talk a lot about energy, and I talk a lot about.

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Christine Chessman: To.

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Trey: Kind of. I don't call it this, but I suppose it is taking more somatic approach to it. I talk a lot about exploring movements and inviting people to to try something and try. I try and take as much pressure out as possible.

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Trey: because I know those things are coming in with with whoever it is, there's all those kind of narratives of. I should be able to do this when Trey can kick really high, and I can't kick really high. Does that mean I'm bad or wrong or not as good, and take all of that away by giving as many options and making sure every option is presented as equal.

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Trey: So in the fitness industry, we're really bad. I think there's a general industry, right? You're kind of this is the easy one. And this is the hard one, and then

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Trey: hard one is the best one. Because, yeah, and you're just like, No.

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Trey: no, and and just being very aware of my language, and so I sometimes have to catch myself like Midword, because an old word will come out

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Trey: young personal trainer mouth, and I'll be like. No, don't, no, don't use that word.

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Trey: Wouldn't use that word and it will be something like easy versus hard.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Trey: It's like, I can't say that. So yeah, just being very thoughtful about language. All in 45 seconds. They've got work 45 seconds, and trying to give like 27 different options, and be very conscious of language and all of the people in the room.

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Trey: And you'll brain's like.

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Christine Chessman: I have I have in Boot Camp and my boot camp, like everybody, makes fun of me, because I always say, if it's available to you.

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Christine Chessman: I'm there always like, if it's available. Is it available, Christian?

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Christine Chessman: But it is.

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Ela Law: It's up to them. I've just hmm.

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Trey: A really good phrase.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, I love it.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Ela Law: it is. And I think, do you know what I always think? People who know me know how big I am on language and what we say about bodies, food, whatever is incredibly powerful.

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Ela Law: So I think just by repeating that and by people taking the piss out of you, whatever. But it'll sink in somewhere, and maybe they will use it at some stage. Maybe they will think about. Oh, if I say that that might actually be a bit triggering. So if I use a different word or a different phrase that might be safer. That might be better. That might be.

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Ela Law: I don't know, you know, a nicer way of saying it. So I always think that it's it's all about role modeling. And and even, you know, when you pull yourself back from something that is just about to come out of your mouth, just, you know, being open about that and saying actually, no, this is not. This is not a word that I want to use, because I think it's harmful. So therefore I'm going to change it. And being like transparent about it, I think it's so so important. It's so powerful.

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Trey: Hmm.

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Ela Law: I love that.

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Trey: I agree with that.

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Christine Chessman: Do you ever get into loops, though? Because sometimes I'm like, so let's challenge ourselves. But only if you want to, and not.

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Trey: Oh, my gosh, I did that this morning.

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Trey: So I we were doing something I really needed to drink, and I was like

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Trey: so feel free at any point to take a rest, grab a drink. I'm going to do that. And then, as I went to get a drink, I was like, but you carry on. And then when, if you want to, if you want to get, then you just have to.

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Trey: and then they're laughing, and you're like.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Trey: But you know, when you're kind of in the middle of

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Trey: I don't know. Maybe a little bit fatigued because you're taking part, and you're trying to process a hundred different things, and I'll say something like, so just lift each arm as I'm lifting my leg, and I'm like not an arm. The arms have got nothing to do with this.

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Christine Chessman: Like.

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Trey: We're lifting our legs.

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Trey: You might feel this in your calf. And then you're like, how are you gonna feel this in your calf? Is it like?

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Trey: But the weirdest thing has come out.

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Christine Chessman: I quite like that, and I don't know about you, but I can't count. So that kind of.

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Trey: No.

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Christine Chessman: Kind at all.

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Trey: No.

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Christine Chessman: I think that is a personal trainer thing. I think we're just rubbish at kind.

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Trey: It is so. I used to count on my fingers because you can't count and queue at the same time.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, it's.

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Trey: Right.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Trey: So I developed a thing where I would always count on my fingers because I can continue to talk whilst counting your reps with my fingers several clients, and so I'll be like they'll be like, what am I on? I'm like 15,

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Trey: because I've just counted them up with my fingers

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Trey: whilst I'm kind of going, and just like, lift your chest a little bit. There you go! That's beautiful. Just move that knee or whatever it is. And so if when you watch me coach like one to one not in class, because I tend to do it by time, I'll be doing this constantly.

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Christine Chessman: Wow! That's good for the brain, isn't it?

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Trey: Yeah, yeah. And you'll be like, cool. You're good. You can stop now.

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Ela Law: I would confuse myself, even if I count like, if I want to count to 18 on my fingers, I'm like.

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Ela Law: have I already been at 15.

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Trey: No start again.

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Ela Law: So I'd be out. I could not even do that. I'm terrible at counting reps. I just roughly feel like, do you feel like I've done the same on both sides. That's

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Ela Law: oh, I hope quite generally.

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Trey: Roughly, roughly.

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Trey: Yes, bye.

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Ela Law: About the same.

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Trey: Yeah.

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Ela Law: Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna tangent now. This is expected in these and talk about age and pain. Oh, yes, let's go back to

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Ela Law: pre record.

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Christine Chessman: I don't think so.

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Ela Law: Was good.

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Christine Chessman: It's they're quite big topics there. But we were talking about sort of I've I've I have a client who I'm about to turn 49, which is exciting.

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Ela Law: Me too.

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Christine Chessman: I know it's so cool. Yeah, this is, you're basically it may as well be 50, though there's no point in 49.

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Ela Law: I disagree, that's all.

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Christine Chessman: Everybody. Everybody says, oh, what you doing for your 50! th That's it.

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Christine Chessman: 49 yet, and I've lost no. So my client was. I'm 46, and she's like, I'm 46, Christine. So I can't bend down anymore. And my knees get really sore because I'm old, and it's like, No, you're not. And it is obviously when we're when we get sort of beyond 30 and above, we lose muscle mass bone density, a certain percentage. But it doesn't mean that we suddenly can't

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Christine Chessman: keep doing and getting up and down off the floor and doing the things we love. We just may need to take a bit more time, and mobilizing and caring for our joints, and and doing all a sort of tending to it. What do you theme trey

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Christine Chessman: about that.

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Trey: I think that as we get older warmups get longer.

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Christine Chessman: Yes.

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Trey: Downs get longer and more important. Both both parts.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Trey: I'm 45, and I will never skip a warm-up ever.

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Christine Chessman: You see.

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Trey: When I was younger, and sometimes even recently, I noticed I was still skipping cool downs, not skipping them, but like doing, but finishing. And then, yeah, finishing, and then pretty much just going like cool, and then going off to find some food or whatever.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Ela Law: And then the next day I'd be like, I'm really sore.

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Trey: Not in a muscle, soreness way, in a joint way.

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Ela Law: Oh!

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Trey: Hips hurt and my back hurts. And so I was like, Hmm!

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Trey: Think I'm not attending to my

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Trey: my needs appropriately as a 45 year, old man. And so now I don't skip that, and things do feel better.

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Trey: So yeah, I think as we get older, you can train just as hard you can, you can still achieve just as much like in terms of strength gains, and whatever else mobility gains all those sorts of things if you want to, but if you are going to, the harder you push yourself the more you're going to need to recover.

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Trey: Can't get away with things that maybe we could. Kids. That's not just not a thing.

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Trey: But yeah, I don't see why age

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Trey: needs to restrict us from doing anything.

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Ela Law: No, no! And would you would you say that? I mean, if people are listening to this who are roughly our age, and who feel like, oh, I've not done anything for a while, therefore might as well not bother that, you would say. Actually, now is the time to really keep going with it, because, you know, the longer you wait to get back into some sort of movement routine, the harder it'll be, and the more

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Ela Law: you know you, the more you will feel your age as you age.

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Trey: Yeah, cause I think we do. So we lose.

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Trey: If I if what I've if what I'm thinking of is correct, we lose about what is it? A kilo of muscle a year? If we don't do anything to retain it?

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Ela Law: Wow!

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Trey: Just age, related muscle, loss.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: I'm.

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Trey: Is about a kilo a year, I think, and but we don't have to lose any of that, so we can keep it so you can maintain it, and you can continue to build it. And it becomes more. I think movement becomes more important because of that, because, you know, full risk goes up and stuff like that. So the more strength you have in your legs, and the more that your joints are supported by muscle.

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Trey: and the more. You work on different movements, which then challenge your balance and challenge your ability to stand on one leg or challenge your ability to move in space like lunges, is a balance exercise, right?

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Christine Chessman: Very much. So, yeah.

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Trey: Yeah,

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Trey: and getting up and down off the floor, all of those things just becomes more and more important, because then, as you get older, you you maintain as much function as possible, and that's got to be good, right? Because then, when you're in your eighties, you're still skipping down the street. That is

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Trey: hilariously why I began training as a kid in the 1st place, because some guy came to my assembly, random Guy.

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Trey: I don't know why, came and gave us an assembly, and he said, If you look after your heart now, it will always be stronger. So if you start now.

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Trey: you will be strengthening your heart in a way that is like

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Trey: that will convey benefits right the way through your life, and very easily influenced. Still, I'm and

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Trey: I was like, okay.

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Trey: And so I just did. I did stuff I was on like sports teams and things, because I kind of naturally quite coordinated, but he

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Trey: had a really big impact on me.

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Christine Chessman: Amazing.

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Trey: Hmm.

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Christine Chessman: It's it seems like I quite like saying Dick Van Dyke, you know, keep and go on at the age of 99, and sort of. And he, you know, talks about. He used to work out for these reasons, and now he works out because of pure defiance, you know, and he's like.

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Trey: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: But it is possible, and it's kind of not limiting yourself to. And you know, in running. And I, keen runner, but it's running is actually something you can get better at as you get older. And it's an interesting, it sort of develops as you get older and you get more experience as a runner, and I have a friend who started running in her forties, and is about to turn 70, and has done so many marathons.

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Christine Chessman: and it has just got stronger, and it's just beautiful to watch, and it's not, you know you are valid. Whether you do 5 min of movement or 50 movements or no movement. You are as valid as anybody else. But

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Christine Chessman: don't limit yourself in terms of what you think is no longer possible for you, because you are a certain age, that's all I would say.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Trey: Definitely.

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Ela Law: Yeah, there's so many, so many excuses, I mean, I see it in my own family. There's oh, no, I've got a my mum's got Copd. I can't walk very far.

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Ela Law: and I'm thinking, well, if you walked a bit further, maybe your lungs would work a little bit better, and maybe your muscles would be a little bit stronger. But I hear that so many times with older people they've got excuse after excuse after excuse, and I feel like just adding a little bit of movement in would probably make you feel a lot better and stronger.

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Ela Law: So I don't know what. What do you think, Trey?

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Trey: I think movement definitely can do those things.

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Trey: And I also think that the stories we tell ourselves about what we're capable of.

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Ela Law: Hmm.

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Trey: Are a huge part of whether or not we can access those benefits because of whether we can kind of get past the barrier and into the movement. In the 1st place, I used to have a client who?

403
00:42:54.800 --> 00:42:57.100
Trey: She she's like. It's very

404
00:42:57.730 --> 00:43:08.386
Trey: still. Someone that kind of like stays in my heart because she she struggled so hard to come to me. In the 1st place, she had kind of like agoraphobia to quite a degree.

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Trey: and it took her ages and ages and ages. She was telling me to kind of even make contact with me, and then she used to manage to get herself to my gym every day, every week, and what we did together was develop her walking fitness from

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00:43:23.280 --> 00:43:41.009
Trey: I get out of breath after 20 seconds to. I can walk to the park, which is 6 min away with me. But then, when she wasn't with me, she couldn't go anywhere beyond her back garden. So we used to get her walking around her backyard, and that was the thing. And one of the things I've always had a lot of

407
00:43:42.460 --> 00:43:46.169
Trey: has defined. My entire career, I think, is

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Trey: understanding those barriers that people have towards fitness, and why they find it hard to start.

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00:43:53.370 --> 00:43:57.359
Trey: and then, seeing how I can help get rid of those barriers.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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00:43:57.790 --> 00:44:02.340
Trey: Because they're so there's so many, and they're so like deep.

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Trey: and they break your heart a lot of the time.

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Christine Chessman: You know what I would say. I don't like the word excuses, Ella.

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Ela Law: Go on. What do you use?

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Christine Chessman: I don't like, because that that to me is diet culture, that that just to me.

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Ela Law: Right.

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00:44:18.520 --> 00:44:28.869
Christine Chessman: No excuses, you know. Never miss a Monday, and as Trey's saying, there's so many complex reasons as to why somebody doesn't move.

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Christine Chessman: moved, or and so many barriers that do you know what I mean? I know I know where you were coming from. By the way.

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Ela Law: Yeah, yeah, so.

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00:44:37.400 --> 00:44:39.280
Christine Chessman: No, you didn't mean it in that way at all.

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Ela Law: No, but I think barrier is probably a much better word.

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Christine Chessman: That's right.

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Ela Law: Because excuse sounds very much like, oh, I can't be bothered, but

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Ela Law: there is obviously something there stopping you from doing it, and it's exploring. Well, what is it that's stopping you.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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00:44:53.420 --> 00:45:01.839
Ela Law: How can we overcome that rather than, yeah, yeah, I get you. I hear you. I'll take it all back, rewind everybody. I did not say that.

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Trey: It's interesting. Yeah, no, no, that's.

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Ela Law: That's a really good point. Yeah.

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00:45:05.250 --> 00:45:17.579
Trey: People will define it to themselves as that. Yeah, though I've heard that a thousand times from the people themselves. I know I just. I'm just the I know what to do, but I just can't do it, and then they'll kind of they.

430
00:45:17.760 --> 00:45:29.059
Trey: I think people find it very hard to believe that their own reasons are valid. Yeah, and and so they'll kind of give themselves a real hard time over it, just being like

431
00:45:29.690 --> 00:45:35.079
Trey: there's no reason why I shouldn't do this. And you're like, but there are, quite clearly there are, because otherwise you'd be doing it.

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Ela Law: You could do.

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00:45:35.410 --> 00:45:35.730
Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Trey: Yeah. And I always look to my own behavior because I find exercise relatively easy at this point in my life, and I find it

435
00:45:44.730 --> 00:45:58.679
Trey: or so. I didn't train over the last over. The weekend didn't work out Saturday or Sunday for various reasons, and I felt really achy. On Monday I felt really achy and sore and uncomfortable.

436
00:45:59.650 --> 00:46:05.770
Trey: Way more than when I do work out like I feel sore today, but in a completely different way.

437
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Christine Chessman: From, yeah.

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Ela Law: Yeah, and my brain registers that type of soreness is very positive, and the other type of soreness is not very positive.

439
00:46:12.030 --> 00:46:12.700
Trey: In this.

440
00:46:12.700 --> 00:46:22.120
Trey: I quite enjoy this soreness, but I don't enjoy that other kind, but I find exercise relatively easy. But if you ask me how my learning to play a drum Kit is going.

441
00:46:23.090 --> 00:46:32.360
Trey: I could give you reason after reason, after reason, after reason, as why I do not pick up my sticks and go and sit out in that room and play my drums, and it's because the biggest one

442
00:46:33.008 --> 00:46:40.560
Trey: is that when I sit down at this at my kit and start trying to play the piece that I'm trying to play.

443
00:46:40.700 --> 00:46:44.629
Trey: I'm so bad at it that it's really unsatisfying.

444
00:46:45.020 --> 00:46:45.470
Ela Law: Hmm.

445
00:46:45.470 --> 00:46:47.890
Trey: Because it's so unsatisfying. I don't want to do it.

446
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Trey: And I do that specifically, so that I can try and tap into the mindset of someone coming to exercise for the 1st time.

447
00:46:55.120 --> 00:46:57.180
Trey: Because, you know, when you when you say.

448
00:46:57.390 --> 00:47:01.500
Trey: okay, I just need you like, I'm just gonna suggest that you do

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Trey: 1 min of squats, or 1 min of whatever it is jumping jacks or knee raises, or whatever it is that the person wants to do.

450
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Trey: And they're like, Okay, I can do that. And then they come back the next week, and they're like, no, I didn't do it, and it's because it's unsatisfying. I didn't enjoy it. It felt like nothing to me. It felt like.

451
00:47:22.670 --> 00:47:26.809
Trey: or there was a lot of mistakes in it, and so it just felt unpleasant.

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Trey: And that is how drumming feels to me, and that's how kind of exercise often feels to complete beginners when they haven't got the ability to do what they want, because I want to sit at that, kit and be able to play the full piece like boom.

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Christine Chessman: Of course.

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Trey: And I know that's going to take practice, and I know that I'm going to be rubbish at it for ages. I know all of those things.

455
00:47:46.480 --> 00:47:47.090
Ela Law: Hmm.

456
00:47:47.090 --> 00:47:53.209
Trey: And yet that's still sufficient to stop me from picking the sticks up. In the 1st place.

457
00:47:53.500 --> 00:47:54.670
Christine Chessman: Oh, that's.

458
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Ela Law: Can empathize with the with the people who just just can't get into a routine with exercise, basically.

459
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Trey: Yeah. And I think it's a good exercise for coaches to do to go to do something that they find really hard, because I think, especially as fitness coaches we. It's quite easy to get into that. Fitness is fun. It's like, well.

460
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Ela Law: Not for everyone.

461
00:48:14.100 --> 00:48:18.160
Trey: Don't do something you don't think is fun, and tell me how much enjoyment you get out of that.

462
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Ela Law: And try and do that every other day or.

463
00:48:20.450 --> 00:48:20.970
Trey: Bye.

464
00:48:20.970 --> 00:48:35.259
Christine Chessman: Had this exact conversation earlier with, I've got an Adhd coach at the minute, which is really nice, just for a few sessions, and I was like. I dread going to dance every week. I dread it. It's contemporary dance, and I'm not very good.

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Christine Chessman: but it is good for me, because it's like you're trying to follow instruction. You're trying to do what you're being told and my body won't move, and it doesn't quite. I'm like, what did you say, and how do I? And it is really good for me as a coach.

466
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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

467
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Christine Chessman: even though I don't want to go every week. It is really good for me to go and just see how hard it is. I think that's brilliant, Trey, that you do that with the drums.

468
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Trey: Time.

469
00:49:02.410 --> 00:49:17.319
Trey: and I did a couple of dance classes last not yesterday, maybe the year before. So I really wanted to get into dance more, and I was trying to do it in my little gym, right? So I was like crashing into the squat rack and like my medicine ball pile, and all these things on the floor.

470
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Trey: and just generally in the way. My gym is not big enough. But I was really surprised because I'm quite coordinated, really surprised how I could not translate what he was doing on the screen, and what he was saying to me, and how he was instructing me into some sort of

471
00:49:33.760 --> 00:49:39.340
Trey: like fluid movement in my body could not, it would not go through. And I know it's just practice.

472
00:49:39.340 --> 00:49:40.150
Christine Chessman: Yeah.

473
00:49:40.150 --> 00:49:48.160
Trey: But I yeah, that really surprised me. And I did a couple of classes, and then felt like a like too much of a Wally, so I was just like I can't do.

474
00:49:48.160 --> 00:49:49.700
Trey: Oh, do this.

475
00:49:50.600 --> 00:49:51.170
Ela Law: There's also

476
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Ela Law: interesting to hear you both talk about that, because it reminds me of the thing that you know we we kind of always want to do something that we're good at. So there is some some part of us that

477
00:50:03.700 --> 00:50:21.999
Ela Law: has this sort of perfectionistic tendency to. I can only do this. If I'm legit good at it, and if not, then I might as well not bother. That's why I like the story about your client earlier, who never did what you said or never did, what you demonstrated, Christine, where I just thought well, she had fun. She was moving.

478
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Ela Law: And isn't that the goal that we move. And I'm just thinking all of these things that we we don't let ourselves do because we're rubbish at them.

479
00:50:33.170 --> 00:50:53.290
Ela Law: That kind of defeats the object of actually just doing something that we can enjoy, because it is. I suppose it is a lot more enjoyable when we take away that pressure of doing it perfectly, because then we can focus on is this actually giving us joy? And if it doesn't well sod, it don't do it. But if it does sod it. It doesn't have to be perfect. That's why I'm sort of thinking

480
00:50:54.000 --> 00:50:56.840
Ela Law: it's great that you're both doing those things

481
00:50:57.100 --> 00:51:04.309
Ela Law: and doing it regardless of whether you're ever going to be good at it or not. If it's fun, Trey, if it's fun to dance

482
00:51:04.490 --> 00:51:05.070
Ela Law: done.

483
00:51:05.650 --> 00:51:06.520
Trey: Yes.

484
00:51:06.520 --> 00:51:07.000
Ela Law: Right.

485
00:51:07.250 --> 00:51:08.069
Trey: I think

486
00:51:08.230 --> 00:51:16.320
Trey: it's 1 of the things that comes into my brain when I think about all of this is, you know, James Clear's ideas about what makes a habit.

487
00:51:16.810 --> 00:51:20.719
Trey: Dicky, like it needs to be satisfying.

488
00:51:21.272 --> 00:51:32.910
Trey: Obvious. And whatever the other 2 are but the satisfying one really like crucial. And it's how you derive satisfaction from something that you are inherently bad at at this moment. In time.

489
00:51:33.140 --> 00:51:33.460
Ela Law: Yeah.

490
00:51:33.460 --> 00:51:40.019
Trey: That's the thing it's like, right. Can I find satisfying about hitting my drum, Kit when I can't

491
00:51:40.150 --> 00:51:50.180
Trey: get my legs? My leg that's hitting the kick drum and my hands to hit the correct drum at the correct time. So where's the satisfaction coming from.

492
00:51:50.180 --> 00:51:50.580
Ela Law: Hmm.

493
00:51:50.580 --> 00:51:59.970
Trey: And so finding it other places that you get that from becomes part of the the practice. So it might just be that you did it.

494
00:52:00.340 --> 00:52:04.319
Trey: so tick it off, or whatever it is, or it might be kind of

495
00:52:04.710 --> 00:52:07.100
Trey: in dance, just listening to the music and being.

496
00:52:07.660 --> 00:52:08.180
Christine Chessman: Don't!

497
00:52:08.180 --> 00:52:10.950
Trey: Part of that. But you have to start thinking more broadly.

498
00:52:10.950 --> 00:52:11.360
Ela Law: Yeah.

499
00:52:11.360 --> 00:52:19.380
Trey: Well, this bit, it's not coming from this bit. So where is it gonna come from? And you have to do that. I do that a lot with my clients as well.

500
00:52:19.620 --> 00:52:29.250
Trey: I'm like, I know this sucks at the minute, and it feels crap to you. So how are we gonna drum up like some satisfaction in this practice, so that you can.

501
00:52:30.050 --> 00:52:34.969
Christine Chessman: At least derive something from it that feels good. Yeah, I mean.

502
00:52:34.970 --> 00:52:35.570
Ela Law: Yeah.

503
00:52:36.380 --> 00:52:48.220
Ela Law: respectively. I suppose once you've done the workout or whatever it is, you probably feel much better for it, for whatever reason. So just having this sort of retrospective satisfaction might be helpful.

504
00:52:48.220 --> 00:52:49.200
Trey: Yeah, yeah.

505
00:52:49.200 --> 00:52:49.580
Ela Law: If you.

506
00:52:49.580 --> 00:52:55.520
Trey: Get into that before you do it. Yeah, you can kind of throw yourself forward. I know I feel X afterwards.

507
00:52:55.520 --> 00:52:55.890
Ela Law: Yeah.

508
00:52:55.890 --> 00:52:57.730
Trey: Then, yeah, then you get in somewhere.

509
00:52:57.730 --> 00:52:58.260
Ela Law: Yeah.

510
00:52:58.518 --> 00:53:02.911
Christine Chessman: We are gonna have to wrap this up. So we've gone over quite a long way over.

511
00:53:05.000 --> 00:53:09.710
Christine Chessman: It's such a good call conversation. I have loved this conversation, Ella.

512
00:53:09.710 --> 00:53:15.510
Ela Law: Yeah, absolutely. I think we could go on for ages. But yeah, we probably probably need to run it.

513
00:53:15.510 --> 00:53:18.230
Trey: We haven't seen Dexy, which is very sad.

514
00:53:18.570 --> 00:53:20.470
Trey: He's in his bed having a sleep, bless him!

515
00:53:20.470 --> 00:53:22.410
Christine Chessman: No? Oh.

516
00:53:22.520 --> 00:53:35.600
Christine Chessman: that's well, try. It's been an absolute joy. And oh, before you go, tell us where we can contact you, where we can sign up to the strength career, find out more about it.

517
00:53:35.600 --> 00:53:42.764
Trey: Okay, at the moment Instagram is where I hang out, and I just changed my handle this morning. So it's

518
00:53:43.090 --> 00:53:44.080
Christine Chessman: I like it.

519
00:53:44.080 --> 00:53:50.729
Trey: Yeah. Oh, cool. It's at trey. So TREY. Underscore underscore strength crew.

520
00:53:51.100 --> 00:53:51.550
Christine Chessman: Hmm.

521
00:53:51.550 --> 00:54:00.970
Trey: That's where I am. That's where I do everything that I'm doing. I'm on substack. But pretty much all my sub stack blogs make it onto my Instagram. Eventually.

522
00:54:01.500 --> 00:54:04.290
Trey: I love substack such a nice day.

523
00:54:04.290 --> 00:54:08.610
Christine Chessman: Love it honestly. I follow so many people on substack. Ella, are you on substack?

524
00:54:08.610 --> 00:54:13.880
Ela Law: Am on substack. It totally overwhelms me, because there's so much I want to read, and then I don't read anything because it's.

525
00:54:13.880 --> 00:54:16.060
Trey: I have that problem. I have that problem.

526
00:54:16.060 --> 00:54:25.820
Christine Chessman: I just love it. But thank you so much for taking the time to join us. And yeah, we will speak to you again where I we have to say this, we're gonna have to do a part 2. Ella.

527
00:54:25.820 --> 00:54:27.060
Ela Law: We do absolutely.

528
00:54:27.670 --> 00:54:31.680
Ela Law: Once the strength screw is properly up and running, we want to hear how it's going.

529
00:54:32.040 --> 00:54:33.570
Christine Chessman: Back. And all right, let's do it.

530
00:54:33.930 --> 00:54:34.739
Christine Chessman: Thanks, thank you so much.

531
00:54:34.740 --> 00:54:35.760
Ela Law: So much.

532
00:54:35.760 --> 00:54:36.190
Trey: No worries.