Pilates Princesses vs Muscle Mommies. Our Take.

This was a feisty conversation.

The conversation was inspired by an article from Mikala Jamison on Substack, entitled 'The Long Con of Pilates Culture.'

This is by no means a takedown of Pilates as a movement modality. I (Christine) am a Pilates teacher myself and swear by its considerable benefits, however, I would not be inclined to direct a client to Pilates if they wanted to increase muscle mass or bone density.

You can absolutely build strength in Pilates, and you can improve muscle endurance, joint stability, balance, core connection, and so much more (especially at the beginning of your Pilates journey),  but there is no progressive overload. After a while, the 2kg dumbbells simply won't be enough of a stimulus to create the adaptations we're looking for, as 40+ women trying to counteract the loss of muscle mass and bone density decade upon decade.

"But Pilates creates long, lean muscles", I hear you cry.  Does it though? Or is the 'long, lean muscle phenomenon is "fitness marketing fuckery at its finest."

Muscles are literally attached to bones. There is an origin and an insertion point.  You can grow them but you can't make them longer and leaner.  This is just a diet culture marketing ploy aimed at women.

More than anything through this conversation, we want to arm women with the truth.  If you like Pilates, like how you feel doing Pilates, that is fantastic and as we said, it has incredible benefits, but simply does NOT equate to strength training.

In terms of Muscle mommies vs Pilates princesses, I reject this reductive terminology. I don't enjoy labels. You can do both.  You have autonomy.  We urge you through this podcast to reject the toxic fitness marketing, find a source you trust and most importantly, find what feels good for YOUR body.

Inclusive Pilates Accounts:

@fatbodypilates @plus.size.pilates @neutral.pilates @lityogalife

Please reach out if you would like some support with your relationship to food OR movement. Ela currently has limited spaces for Intuitive Eating coaching and if you'd like to reconnect with movement, contact Christine.

AND if you enjoyed this episode, please share and follow the 'Find Your Strong podcast' and if you have time, write us a short review. It would honestly mean the world. Love to you all, Ela & Christine x

Transcript

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Christine Chessman: Hello. So, Ella, are you gonna introduce, or am I?

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Ela Law (she/her): No, I think you need to do this, because you came up with this blighter of a top,

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Ela Law (she/her): Belter, belter of a topic, that's the word I was…

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Christine Chessman: Feltzer, right.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: So, everybody, welcome, welcome. It's lovely to have you here. I'm getting on my soapbox this week, as I often do.

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Christine Chessman: And this is… this is about muscle mummies versus Pilates princesses, which is…

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Ela Law (she/her): Loving it, loving it.

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Christine Chessman: And I'm… I'm not pretending I came up with this on my own, this topic. This is…

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Christine Chessman: Inspired by a post by Michaela Jamison, I will put her details in the show notes, so I do not want to claim credit for any of the things that I say. And as a Pilates teacher, it really got me thinking, so she did a whole article on the long calm of Pilates culture.

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Christine Chessman: And it is no coincidence that in the last couple of years since GLP-1s came into existence, since skinny culture was back.

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Christine Chessman: that Pilates has grown in popularity, and there are four times as many searches, Google searches, there are more people training to be Pilates teachers than ever before, more people spending their well-earned cash on those expensive classes that we all know and love.

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Christine Chessman: And, yes, more people searching for those long, lean muscles.

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Ela Law (she/her): I'm.

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Christine Chessman: toning their arms, and toning their… and can I just say, long lean muscles are not a thing.

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Christine Chessman: Does it's marketing, it's marketing.

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Christine Chessman: And it is not actually Real.

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Christine Chessman: And, you know, toning is something that is only marketed to women. It is not ever… you don't sort of see in a gym, oh, to men, let's tone those quads. That is purely aimed at people socialize as women, so just thought I'd leave it there. Right, Ella, what do you think of that?

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Ela Law (she/her): What do I think of that? I just… I was just saying off-mic, when do women… when will they finally wake up to all of this shit? Because there are so many… Pilates seems to be the thing of…

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Ela Law (she/her): the moment, but it's… it sort of goes in… in… in cycles, doesn't it? And there's always marketing

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Ela Law (she/her): for any kind of sport, and I was saying to you off-mic earlier, it's not just Pilates, I see that with the CrossFit body and the CrossFit attire, you see it with yoga, you know, special yoga leggings and yoga t-shirts, and you have to wear the right kind of things, and you have to drink the right kind of things to take to your class, and you… you know, for a lot of different modalities of exercise.

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Ela Law (she/her): in sports. You have that particular marketing machine that tells you how you need to look, what you need to eat, what you need to drink, what you need to buy.

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Ela Law (she/her): It's ridiculous! You can do all of those things.

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Ela Law (she/her): in an old pair of track pants and an old t-shirt, and you can do all of those things without really

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Ela Law (she/her): You know, just… but…

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Ela Law (she/her): without sort of having an outcome of a particular body type, you should just be able to do those things, because they give you something, whether that is fun or, you know, core strength. So I've been saying, I've been doing Pilates for probably 20 years now. Never once did I think of doing it for whatever long, lean body. I'm doing it for my back and my core strength and my pelvic floor strength.

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Ela Law (she/her): And it's been amazing, and I've done lots of… I've done reformer Pilates, matte pilates, different teachers, different classes, but it's just… it makes me really frustrated that it's always targeted at women and to achieve a particular look.

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Ela Law (she/her): It's ju- ugh.

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Christine Chessman: So, this… I completely hear you on this. I think the article that Michaela wrote, she was… she was basically saying that, in Pilates culture, we are led to believe that Pilates is the exclusive means to achieving the type of body currently upheld as the gold standard for women.

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Christine Chessman: Splendor, yet toned. And she says, fitness marketing fuckery at its best.

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Christine Chessman: And it is true that Joseph Plate said, give me 10 sessions, and you'll feel better. In 20 sessions, you'll look better. In 30 sessions, you'll have a brand new body. That is the whole essence.

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Ela Law (she/her): Okay. Of Pilates. So he started the fuck.

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Christine Chessman: Oh, yeah, well, he, you know, and it is…

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Ela Law (she/her): Mmm.

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Christine Chessman: It's… it's just interesting to me. It's really got me thinking, about my values as a trainer, because I'm… I am a Pilates instructor as well. I was trained at an amazing academy where it was very much about the theory and about the practice, and certainly not

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Christine Chessman: any of the above, never about the long lean muscle, so it was… And there are so many good things about Pilates.

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Christine Chessman: But I think a lot of people are being sold myths… myths, or mistruths, untruths, that it is…

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Christine Chessman: for strength training, do Pilates with the little tiny dumbbells. And Pilates is great for endurance of the muscle, it's great for rehab, it's great for if you're starting, coming to exercise, core stability, it's great for body awareness, mind-body connection.

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Christine Chessman: There's so many things it's great for, but you're not going to build muscle mass through

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Christine Chessman: Pilates with tiny little dumbbells.

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Ela Law (she/her): Hmm.

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Christine Chessman: So… and that's where strength training… so I just don't want people to have the wool pulled over their eyes. They… if you… depending on your goal, Pilates is perfect for you if your goal is core stability, balance, body connection, grit. If you want to build muscle.

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Ela Law (she/her): Not secret.

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Christine Chessman: I would say, have the information, be armed with the information. Strength training is your friend. Pilates with tiny dumbbells is not strength training, it's its own modality.

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Christine Chessman: Which is equally as valid, so there's no kind of…

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Christine Chessman: Do this, do this, this is… it depends on your goal.

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Ela Law (she/her): For a numpty like me, can you explain the difference between muscle endurance and muscle building?

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, so if you're doing, like, little pulses.

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Christine Chessman: pulses. That's gonna burn. You get a sensation of burn, and I think a lot of us equate that to difference in our bodies. That's gonna make a difference. That's gonna do something. And it is… it's building that endurance of the muscle to be able to keep crunching.

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Christine Chessman: So, you know, that's great, that's muscular endurance, but to cause

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Christine Chessman: To create enough stimulus to cause an adaptation to grow a muscle, you need more.

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Ela Law (she/her): So how would you adapt that crunch? Would you need to do something different? Would you need to add a weight? Or would you need to do a.

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Christine Chessman: You would need to progressively overload.

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Ela Law (she/her): Right.

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Christine Chessman: So, we're talking…

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Christine Chessman: build up your weight. So there's lots of core exercises that you can do through strength training, and not all of them are on your back, so there might be more functional exercises, like…

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Ela Law (she/her): Hmm.

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Christine Chessman: Like a windmill, where you're pressing a width and coming in. There might be kind of wood chopper exercises, they might be just deadlift squats, and you're increasing that weight over time.

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Christine Chessman: So what is…

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Ela Law (she/her): Builds muscle rather than increases endurance of the muscle.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, you need enough stimulus.

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Christine Chessman: For your muscle to adapt and grow.

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Ela Law (she/her): Okay.

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Christine Chessman: It's very hard to build muscle, I can't emphasize that enough. It is, especially at our age, because our muscle mass, bone density, is declining year on year on year.

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Ela Law (she/her): So you're fighting that.

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Christine Chessman: Hiding it.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah. So Pilates has definitely got benefits.

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Christine Chessman: definitely… you know what I mean? And it's… I'm not… I'm just saying if you want to build muscle.

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Ela Law (she/her): is not the thing to do that.

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Christine Chessman: No, no, and it's…

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Ela Law (she/her): That's really interesting, actually, because I…

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Ela Law (she/her): unless there's Pilates teachers listening who already know this, I don't think many people know that, just because the marketing is so that we are led to believe that you are building muscle when you do… I always thought I built muscles, not like, as in, like, I'm lifting heavy weights kind of muscle, but I always thought I'm… I'm building something that then contributes to a stronger core, say.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, and you're… so, endurance is… the muscle is gaining through that.

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Ela Law (she/her): Hmm.

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Christine Chessman: The muscle that exists is gaining through that.

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Christine Chessman: Do you know what I mean?

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Ela Law (she/her): You're getting bigger, because you're not building muscle, you're just making it.

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Christine Chessman: You… the caveat is, when you start, absolutely you will build a bit of muscle, because you're coming from that entry point. But after… after a while, those 2.2 kilogram dumbbells will not be quite enough, because your body will be like, I've got this.

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Christine Chessman: And, you know, the Type 1 muscle fibers are then recruited, which is the endurance, rather than the build. So it's… and…

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Christine Chessman: I'm… you know, this is just…

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Christine Chessman: It's just a conversation, and certainly you could do a Pilates program where you progressively overload, and… but then it becomes a strength program.

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Christine Chessman: So it is… Pilates has so many benefits that I can't say that enough. I just don't want it to be missold as strength training.

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Christine Chessman: when it's not. Do you know what I mean?

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah, totally. But you could… you could… if you sort of moved away from the purest kind of view of Pilates, you could integrate some strength training into it.

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Ela Law (she/her): And then make it a little bit different. Is that what you're saying? So when you progressively change the way… like, if you use… I've done a reformer Pilates, and we have increased weights that I'm doing various exercises with, so that would be Pilates with a strength element to it.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah. If you do enough reps.

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Ela Law (she/her): Gotcha.

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Christine Chessman: So, obviously, if you do, you know, hundreds and hundreds of reps, you know, there's a way to sort of…

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Christine Chessman: If you're… if you are using enough resistance, it's going to challenge the muscle, great. But if you have joint pain.

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Christine Chessman: you don't want to be doing 100 reps of something, you want to be doing 5 reps. So let's maybe talk about efficiency in terms of building muscle.

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Christine Chessman: You're gonna be able to do it a lot.

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Christine Chessman: More efficiently, especially if your joints are achy, by not doing 100 squats, but by doing 5.

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Christine Chessman: And progressively overloading. So, as in, once that becomes doable, then you move to the next weight category. And our muscles in our lower body, Ella, are incredibly strong.

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Ela Law (she/her): Mmm.

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Christine Chessman: incredibly big, incredibly strong, so at the beginning, you will build muscle if you're coming from nothing. Do you know what I mean? If you're going into Pilates from the outset, you can absolutely get stronger, but that will…

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Ela Law (she/her): There's a ceiling effect.

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Christine Chessman: Celine.

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Christine Chessman: And that's all I'm trying to say, is that if you want to actually increase muscle mass and bone density.

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Christine Chessman: it's really wise to also do strength training as well as Pilates. I'm not saying Pilates doesn't have its… especially at, you know, the access point. If you begin… if you begin with Pilates, you will probably see.

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Christine Chessman: A build of strength.

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Christine Chessman: Do you know what I mean?

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah. So we tangented into you answering my questions about the physicality of it, but I mean, the point, really, that you're making, if I'm not wrong, is that the marketing of a particular exercise that has so many benefits.

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Ela Law (she/her): has been taken totally out of context, and has been ascribed something that it doesn't actually do, so we're being basically sold a lie.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, more about.

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Ela Law (she/her): Which fits in with the current narrative of, you know, the whole thinner's better, which is… back.

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Ela Law (she/her): Big time.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah, and I think it is just, you know, I think Steph Godrerow is a really good resource for this, but it's incredibly hard to build muscle when you hit a certain age. And for people, like, I have clients with osteoporosis, I would not just advise them to do Pilates.

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Christine Chessman: Because they're actually wanting to impact bone growth, bone mineralization. They need that stimulus to actually recruit enough

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Christine Chessman: muscle, and to be able to build bone. So, Pilates has its place, it is fantastic, and especially if you begin with Pilates, you will see a difference in strength, because you are increasing what you can do. You're increasing your endurance, you're increasing… if you increase weights, you will definitely

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Christine Chessman: They'll, you know, you will see your muscles change, etc.

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Christine Chessman: And you'll grow stronger, but there's absolutely a ceiling if you're using 2KG and never progressing beyond that. Do you see what I mean?

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah, yeah.

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Christine Chessman: Does that make any sense?

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Ela Law (she/her): No, it does make sense, absolutely. So, where do the muscle mummies come in, then? So, we've got the Pilates princesses, and the…

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Christine Chessman: There's nothing wrong with muscular endurance. Muscular endurance is also really good. Endurance is really good for us. Yeah. So there's so many benefits, so I'll stop. I'm trying to be nice to Pilates people out there, because there's so many benefits. I love.

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Ela Law (she/her): Oh, of course.

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Christine Chessman: the fact that I'm aware of my posture now, I'm aware of my core, my pelvic floor connection, there's so many amazing.

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Ela Law (she/her): Oh, I absolutely love it, absolutely love it, but yeah, I think we need to just sort of understand

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Ela Law (she/her): What the benefits are.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, and it's, it's…

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Ela Law (she/her): Close to what we're being told the benefits are.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, and I would never say stop doing Pilates, I would just say maybe add.

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Ela Law (she/her): Add something else.

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Christine Chessman: depending on your goal. If you are not that interested in building muscle.

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Ela Law (she/her): and you actually feel good doing your Pilates classes.

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Christine Chessman: you don't need to do anymore. So this is not me going, you have to do this. This is what is your goal, and I don't want people to have, oh, through Pilates, you'll continue to build muscle for 20 years, because that's not…

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Ela Law (she/her): That's not how it works.

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Christine Chessman: true. Do you know what I mean?

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah. No.

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Christine Chessman: So… but yes.

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Christine Chessman: Obviously, there's lots of… there's lots of different research out there, so I don't wanna… I'm not the oracle, certainly not, and I'm really happy to…

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Christine Chessman: you know… be proven… not proven wrong, but I'm really happy to have the conversation with people.

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Ela Law (she/her): Hmm.

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Christine Chessman: But I'm… what I'm trying to talk about is the marketing, not the actual discipline of philosophy.

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Ela Law (she/her): It's just, I suppose what… Pilates is just one example of how marketing is used and also misleads us into, you know, it promises us stuff that just cannot be achieved, it's not real.

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Christine Chessman: That's… and… and I think, you know, muscle mummies are the gym… the gym brigade, I guess, who lift heavy weights.

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Christine Chessman: And it's… yeah. So that's the Muscle Mummies versus the Pilates Princess.

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Christine Chessman: And it… yeah. And it's not… your muscle is muscle is muscle. You can't lengthen your muscle, I'm just gonna say that.

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Ela Law (she/her): Hmm.

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Christine Chessman: You can… if you lose fat, your muscle will be more visible.

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Christine Chessman: Do you know what I mean? So… or, if you build it.

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Ela Law (she/her): If you…

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Christine Chessman: If it grows, it will be more visible.

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Christine Chessman: So that's… you can't lengthen it by just doing little reps, little crunches. You can't lengthen the muscles.

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Ela Law (she/her): No. And when you… so this is another question from someone not from that sort of arena. When you stretch a muscle, you're not lengthening it either, you're just giving it more… what's the word? Elasticity? You're teaching it to be more

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Ela Law (she/her): Flexible and pliable, is that right?

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, I'm not so sure about that. Ask a yoga teacher.

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Christine Chessman: But yes, I think that's true.

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Ela Law (she/her): But this is another… it's the narrative that is used in any of those exercises.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, you're, you're…

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Ela Law (she/her): as well.

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Christine Chessman: Your origin and insertion points of a muscle are on a bone.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah, they're not…

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Christine Chessman: Why do you lengthen them?

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Ela Law (she/her): Well, if you lengthen a muscle, you'll have it flopping around.

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Christine Chessman: What… do you know what I mean?

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. If you say it like that, it makes complete sense. It's not like when you lengthen your muscle, you're suddenly gaining 10 centimeters in height, because you… that doesn't make any sense, but it's interesting you should say that, because I have never thought about it, but that is the language that is used all the time, lengthen your muscles. It's like…

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Ela Law (she/her): No, you're stretching your muscle, and then it goes straight back to where it needs to be. It's just becoming a little bit more playable, maybe, or elastic. But it's the same thing. It's not suddenly going to be longer.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Ela Law (she/her): wouldn't work, would it? Interesting.

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Ela Law (she/her): I've heard of that.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, and it… it's just… it really got me thinking this weekend, because I just want women to be armed with the truth.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: And that's, you know, that's women, women, people socialized as women, people identify as women, trans women, all women. I just want…

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Christine Chessman: Do you know what I mean?

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Christine Chessman: I just, I don't want you to kind of think.

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Christine Chessman: I don't know, but I just… there's a lot of misinformation out there, and I… I think… so what I'm gonna say, though, to cap it off, because I want to make my message really clear, is that you don't have to do any frigging exercise. You are as valuable if you never move again, or if you do Pilates, or if you do strength… it doesn't… there is no worth

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Christine Chessman: In any of these, and it's completely dependent on your goal. If you have a certain goal, I want to, as a trainer, help you make that goal.

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Christine Chessman: In terms of fitness, in terms of strength, in terms of, you know, that core stability or that body awareness, I want you to find what

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Christine Chessman: what works for you, do you know?

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Ela Law (she/her): Right.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah, so… Through the marketing bullshit, and actually find things that…

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Ela Law (she/her): Are right for you, that align with what your goals are.

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Ela Law (she/her): Absolutely, and and you can do it in an old t-shirt and a tracksuit bottom. You don't have to buy the very expensive gear.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, I'm…

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Ela Law (she/her): It's my thing, I just find it so… oh, the different outfits for the different sports. You wear this to do this, and you wear that to do that, and you have to wear the right kind. It's like, it's… ugh.

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Christine Chessman: What do you wear when.

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Ela Law (she/her): good food.

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Christine Chessman: account.

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Ela Law (she/her): I have a pair of leggings, pair of trainers, and a t-shirt.

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Christine Chessman: Is that it?

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah, guess what I wear when I go to Pilates? What? I wear a pair of trainers, pair of leggings, and a t-shirt. Guess what I do when I go to my dance fit class? I wear the same exact pair of leggings, same exact t-shirt, and… same trainers!

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Christine Chessman: So, let's talk about you, and I applaud that. I try… I… in the mornings, I work out in my pyjamas, my nightie, whatever I've got going on. It's absolutely fine. And I… I love it when a client comes to my house in…

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Christine Chessman: jogging bottoms, or their jeans, you know, like, loose baggy jeans, great. If you can move, come along. I am very happy, I don't care what you've got on you.

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Christine Chessman: And that's a barrier, and we want to break down the barriers.

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Ela Law (she/her): It's a movement. And that's why I want to keep, sort of, saying that.

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Christine Chessman: I don't want my point to get lost, because.

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Christine Chessman: any movement you do is valid. And, you know, I did that post about the strength training. There is a lot of, you must strength train, you must strength train, you must strength train. Now, for good reason, but, slightly differently, it's… that's not necessarily false advertising, but…

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Christine Chessman: It's pressure that is not helpful.

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Christine Chessman: And it is not beneficial to any woman, because actually, as Bethany Rotter said last week, the two YouTube videos you do a week for 20 minutes.

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Christine Chessman: Are much better than the perfect workout session you don't do.

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Ela Law (she/her): Do you know what I mean? It's much better if you're moving in some capacity that feels good for you. Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: Then you're not moving at all.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: Do you know what I mean? In terms of how you feel in your body, and…

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Ela Law (she/her): But what differs from what you say compared to the marketing strategies is that you are giving people information that they can then use to be informed, whereas the marketing of particular exercise forms for a particular goal

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Ela Law (she/her): is misleading. It's not information, it's not the truth. Whereas you're providing information, it's like, yes, if you do this.

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Ela Law (she/her): you will… You might get this, this, and this as a benefit.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Ela Law (she/her): Whether you do it or not, but what the marketing of Pilates as a sort of a lean, long-muscled kind of person does is it doesn't give you information, it's giving you lies, it's giving you untruths.

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Christine Chessman: And you want… I want people to feel good in their bodies, and to sort of feel strong if they want to feel strong. I want them to build muscle if they want to build muscle. I want them to just meet whatever goal that they want to meet. And yeah, so that's my soapbox moment.

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Ela Law (she/her): I love it!

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Christine Chessman: And yeah, in terms of you, you do a lot of movement, don't you?

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Ela Law (she/her): I do a reasonable amount of movement. I have just been told by my physio to stop

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Ela Law (she/her): Which isn't great, because I… I've just found a nice sort of rhythm of different things that I enjoy, but he needs to see that the exercises he's given me are working or not working, and me meddling with other things is going to make it very difficult to see whether any.

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Christine Chessman: And it's not your back specifically?

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Ela Law (she/her): No, this is my… I don't know if I told you, but in the summer holidays, I went inline skating, and I fell on my ass, but I cushioned my fall with my arm. Okay. Ever since then, my… my right arm has been a bit funny.

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Ela Law (she/her): And I've ignored it, because that's what I do. I was like, it's not falling off, so it'll be fine. And I kept doing everything that I'm doing, but it's not getting any better, so I went to see a physio, and he said that my… what was it? The long neck of my biceps, which is… it sits in a groove in your shoulder.

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Ela Law (she/her): Socket, is angry, and it keeps, sort of, sometimes popping out, sort of.

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Christine Chessman: Okay.

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Ela Law (she/her): out of the groove, and he said, what we need to do is we need to sort of calm that down and strengthen it, but not with weights, but with isometric exercise. So, he's told me that I can't do anything. So, my movement journey over the next month will look very different, but I do… I do enjoy all these different things that I do, but as I said to you, I do… I do them in a t-shirt and a pair of leggings.

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Christine Chessman: But this, hopefully, we'll go back to Pilates, it's fantastic for rehab, if you… but obviously, if there's very specific exercises that he wants you to do. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, with, like, just isometric little bands or anything.

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Ela Law (she/her): Not even that, at the moment, just a wall. I'm standing on a wall, pushing my arm in.

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Christine Chessman: That's great. That would be… yeah, so I would… I would listen to him annoyingly.

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Ela Law (she/her): I think I will, yeah, I will. Yeah, and that's… that's kind of where I stay out of my land. I think if my clients have pinned, I'm like.

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Christine Chessman: Go see somebody.

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Christine Chessman: It's not…

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Ela Law (she/her): Exactly.

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Christine Chessman: that's not my sphere of expertise, so I would always say, no, no, go and… and take care of it, and then come back, definitely. Exactly. Sorry, you're gonna.

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Ela Law (she/her): Oh, it's alright.

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Christine Chessman: What are you gonna put in place? So, what.

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Ela Law (she/her): I think I'll just… I'll just… I'll do the same that I usually do. I walk every day with a dog anyway. I'm just gonna be careful and just look after it, and don't do anything that aggravates it, in terms of lifting things and making funny movements.

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Christine Chessman: And what would you identify more as, a muscle mummy or a Pilates printer?

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Ela Law (she/her): I don't think I'm either. I'm a happy-go-lucky find-something-that-makes-me-slightly-sweaty kind of person.

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Christine Chessman: Oh, I love that, Ella.

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Ela Law (she/her): I don't, I've never really… I don't know… I've never felt like I was…

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Ela Law (she/her): in any particular camp, you know, and I've done loads of different kinds of exercises, and I've never felt like…

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Ela Law (she/her): I know I've got friends who got properly into CrossFit, and then they were all, like, using all the CrossFit language, and

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Ela Law (she/her): it's just not me, I don't want to identify with a sport. I'm not, like, a yogi. I do like yoga. I'm not a Pilates princess. I like Pilates.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Ela Law (she/her): I'm not a muscle mummy. I'm a mummy, and I like training my muscles with weights, but I would never put myself into… Into those kinds of things. Yeah, I just… it's just not me identifying with any of that.

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Ela Law (she/her): But that's just me. Some people find it helps them. I don't know. But for me, it's not really a thing.

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Christine Chessman: I think that's very healthy.

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Christine Chessman: And I'm… and we're gonna… we're gonna wrap up now, but I do think it's… it's really interesting, and I know it's probably my insecurities and my… but I always felt slightly out of place in the Pilates world.

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Ela Law (she/her): Did you?

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, because I didn't… I didn't quite look the same, because I do have strong arms, and I'm, you know, I… maybe I'm more muscle mummy, but…

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Christine Chessman: But it's more… that's maybe an interesting thing, because there is a certain look… I think we need more representation of people in larger bodies in Pilates, for sure. And I think there is a certain look of people who apply to be…

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Christine Chessman: Pilates teachers, because it is kind of…

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Christine Chessman: it just goes along with the culture, and that's not necessarily… and there's nothing… I'm not saying anything against anybody who's a Pilates teacher, it's cracking discipline, but it is… we definitely need more representation in Pilates.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yes.

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Christine Chessman: Because you don't.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah, that's actually very true, because you can… you get that a lot more with yoga now.

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Christine Chessman: Yes, you have.

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Ela Law (she/her): like Lucy B, and Scotty, and Jessamie, and all of those people who do an awful lot for yoga, in the sense that they're representing someone in a larger body, doing incredible

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Ela Law (she/her): poses and teaching yoga, and it makes it a lot more accessible. But yeah, you're right, I've not seen that with Pilates at all.

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Christine Chessman: There are a couple of accounts.

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Ela Law (she/her): Right.

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Christine Chessman: I'll put those in the show notes.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah, I would like to find out about them as well.

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Christine Chessman: So, and I can't… I can't remember the… the name of them just now, but certainly it's an area that I think needs…

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Christine Chessman: more.

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Christine Chessman: Attention, because there's certain things like equipment, like the Pilates ring, there's lots of exercises where you put both legs through the ring.

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Christine Chessman: pull the ring over your legs, and do a bridge, and press your legs out against the ring. Do you know how small that ring is?

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Ela Law (she/her): Yes, I do. If you have strong thighs at all… Yeah?

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Christine Chessman: It will not fit in that ring.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: And that's… I find that very excluding.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: That's not giving people a sense of belonging, that's saying, oh, you don't quite fit.

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Ela Law (she/her): Very true. It's the same with the reformer equipment. If you're in a larger body, a lot of those things were probably inaccessible.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, and that's what I've always thought about Reformer. It pit me off, because it's so…

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Ela Law (she/her): Hmm.

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Christine Chessman: there are certain reformer studios that I've been to, and you can't walk between the beds, and I'm like, how would that feel if you actually couldn't fit? And, you know, it's…

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Christine Chessman: I don't know, it's just something that I've been thinking about a lot. Whereas, I guess, if you're lifting weights, there is, certainly, there's obstructions, but there's a lot more scope there.

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Ela Law (she/her): Mmm.

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Christine Chessman: I think. So anyway…

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah, but yeah, you're right, it makes it very exclusive to a certain… certain… it makes you…

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Ela Law (she/her): If you are not the body that it's, you know, it's sort of marketed at.

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Ela Law (she/her): it… you would feel like you don't belong there, and that's, like, the worst thing, because Pilates can be beneficial whatever size you are, but if…

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Ela Law (she/her): It's prohibitive, because you can't actually use the equipment.

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Christine Chessman: A lot of the studios are small.

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Ela Law (she/her): They are, yeah.

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Christine Chessman: They are small, and they cram a lot of people in.

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Christine Chessman: isn't… so that's… that's all I'm gonna say. So maybe I'

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Christine Chessman: I identify more as a Muslim on me.

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Christine Chessman: But anyway, I'm gonna get off, and I… I want you to take over next time.

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Ela Law (she/her): Okay.

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Christine Chessman: But I really want to thank every listener for, like, sticking with us today. It's been around the houses, this topic, and I'd love to know what you think about it, so do get in touch with us. And if there's any topics you would like us to cover, let us know.

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Ela Law (she/her): Let us know, definitely.

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Christine Chessman: Happily talk through anything.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah, we were talking about a Q&A kind of thing, so maybe we can…

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Christine Chessman: Oh, yeah.

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Ela Law (she/her): We can do that, so if anyone who's listening to this has got any questions, either regarding movement, or nutrition or intuitive eating, you can always get in touch with us and let us know, and then we will do a Q&A session.

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Christine Chessman: And we are not gurus, we're just doing our best.

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Ela Law (she/her): Absolutely.

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Christine Chessman: Lots of love, everybody, and see you next time.