Nana Crawford. Celebrating Your Jiggles.

What a joyful conversation with the one and only Nana Crawford, creator of Jigglefitt.  She is a powerhouse and her energy is truly infectious and we hope you love this conversation as much as we did.

We talked to Nana about the following topics:

• Body Acceptance after having kids and seeing your body change out of recognition
• How to get to know your body again
• How dance can help bring you back to your body
• Why dancing is for everyone, and why it's ok if it doesn't land first time.
• The racist roots of diet culture, white supremacy culture and we can help promote more black owned businesses and elevate marginalised voices in the fitness space.
• Taking up space.    How can we bring women (in particular) back to the movement itself, rather than seeing movement as a weight loss tool?
• Challenging yourself vs pushing yourself vs punishing yourself. Knowing when we actually just need rest.
  
  

This conversation certainly reignited the joy of movement in both of us, and we hope it can do the same for you.

Rather than judging our bodies so harshly from the outside, can we look inward and connect to how we FEEL?

Nana Crawford is a dancer, instructor, and community builder creating joyful jiggles across the UK with JiggleFiTT. Her mission is to make wellness accessible and inclusive for everybody. Each of Nana's classes is crafted to provide a unique and holistic workout experience that is both fun and transformative.

Chapters

• 0:55 Introduction to NANA
• 5:32 Nana's Story. How she got started.
• 8:41 "Bouncing Back" after childbirth and getting to know yourself again
• 11:31 Breaking the Stereotypes around what fitness LOOKS like
• 13:28 Why There is a Form of Dance for EVERY body
• 16:04 Christine's Struggle to Connect to Her Body Through Dance
• 18:39 Finding the Right Teacher and Class for You
• 21:14 Why It's Important to Choose Dance Based on the Music YOU like
• 23:48 How to Get More In Tune with Our Bodies
• 26:23 Saying Thank You to Our Bodies
• 29:37 Why Are We So Mean to Ourselves?
• 31:09 Reflecting on What Our Bodies Can Do, Rather than How They Look
• 33:18 How Do We Follow Our Goals Without Going TOO Hard?
• 36:31 Why We Need Community To Reach Our Goals
• 39:39 Promoting Black Owned Businesses and Having the Tricky Conversations
• 43:28 What Does INCLUSIVE Actually Mean?
• 47:20 Finding a Welcoming Space Where You Belong

Transcript

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Christine Chessman: So, hello everybody, and welcome back to Find Your Storm Podcast. This is, I love this episode. We had the wonderful, the amazing, Nana Crawford. Her handle on Instagram is ThisBlackWomanCan. She has created Jiggle Fit.

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Christine Chessman: Which you may have heard of. If you haven't, go look it up. It's amazing!

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Christine Chessman: And what did we talk about today, Ella? We talked about, sort of, feeling disconnected from your body, how movement can really change that, can help that, and how your body can do so much more than you think it can.

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Christine Chessman: And it actually already is doing so much more than you realize. What else would you say?

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Ela Law: Well, I mean, that's… that's that in a nutshell. She's also… she was just so…

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Ela Law: she was, A, so lovely, and B, she had… she made real sense to me, in the sense that she was talking about her own journey, how she reconnected to her body, re-learned who she was, what she enjoyed,

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Ela Law: it was… it was just… it was just really interesting to hear it from a perspective of it doesn't have to be perfect, it's all about, you know, making… making the movement count, and giving… making… making movement give you the joy back, and connecting you back to your body. I loved that so much.

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Ela Law: And, you know, she says, joyful jiggles, so she wants to create joyful jiggles across the UK.

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Christine Chessman: Our Jiggle journeys. Her mission is to make wellness accessible and actually inclusive for everybody, and each of Nana's classes is crafted to provide unique and holistic workout experience that is fun and transformative. I mean, I'd almost given up on dance before she came on today, and it makes me want to go and actually look out a few more dance types, and.

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Ela Law: Yeah?

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Christine Chessman: find what works, but it was just such a joyful conversation, and… but it also was real, so it wasn't just like, oh, I feel wonderful in my body all the time. It was like, I didn't. I felt completely disconnected, here's what helped me. So, for me, I just loved it, and I loved her energy, and yeah, it was a great conversation, which you will enjoy.

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Christine Chessman: So hang around, listen to the conversation, and let us know what you think.

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Christine Chessman: So, welcome, Nana! How are you?

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Nana Crawford: I'm good, I'm good, even on this grey, grey day, I'm still… I'm good, actually. Today is a good day for me.

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Christine Chessman: The weather's a bit sucky at the minute.

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Ela Law: It is, isn't it? Where are you, Nana?

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Nana Crawford: I'm in South London, so I'm in Croydon.

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Ela Law: Alright, you're not that far from me, then.

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Ela Law: Where between Christine and me, I'm in Sevenoaks. Oh, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Nana Crawford: So, just having come back from Greece, so I went to Crete, not that long ago, and I just feel sad that I'm not basking in the sun.

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Nana Crawford: Drinks in my hand, and my kids…

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Christine Chessman: Aww.

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Nana Crawford: Feeding me grapes.

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Ela Law: How did you manage that? I've never got my kids to feed me anything.

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Nana Crawford: Yeah, but extra pool time. Extra time.

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Christine Chessman: I love it.

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Ela Law: I'm taking notes.

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Christine Chessman: I think this is the perfect time of year, isn't it, to go on a little hot, hot holiday? Yeah. It's like, forget the summer, why do people go away in the summer to hot places? Stay in, stay here, it's fine.

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Nana Crawford: Yeah, when it…

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Nana Crawford: turns, you kind of need to go at that time, like, between autumn verging on. When it starts to get dark, that's when you need more light. So, yeah, it was well-timed, and very much needed.

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Christine Chessman: I would love to… so, I mean, you… I don't know if you've ever listened to an episode of this podcast, but we can talk, and we can go on tangents, and we… so we… I want to actually ask about your story, Nana, just in case we get off on another tangent.

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Nana Crawford: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: Because I'm really interested to know, basically, as much as you can tell us about how you got started, how you created JiggleFit, how… I mean, you're… I certainly have been sort of watching your account grow and grow and grow and grow, and with that, obviously, there are trolls, there are people that, you know, in that space, as we know.

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Nana Crawford: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: That makes it very difficult, but I just… how have you navigated everything? Sorry, that's a big question.

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Nana Crawford: Oh, from the very beginning.

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Christine Chessman: All of.

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Nana Crawford: Okay, so it all kind of started for me back in 2020, and it was maybe even… perhaps maybe even a little bit before that. So, I have two kids.

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Nana Crawford: And when I had my second child, my son, I…

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Nana Crawford: felt a very… I felt very disconnected from my body, like, extremely disconnected from my body. And growing up at that time, the kind of the media…

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Nana Crawford: perception about women and birth and everything was all around bouncing back, right? Bouncing back to whoever it was that you used to be. So, in my head, I thought, I feel really disconnected because I haven't bounced back.

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Nana Crawford: And that's what I need to do. I need to bounce back. So, I went hard, and I went in hard at the gym, and I signed up for, like, loads of fitness transformation programs, and I did everything I could possibly do to bounce back.

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Nana Crawford: And I lost weight, and, you know, I felt good-ish.

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Nana Crawford: But there was still a part of me that felt com- still, if not actually even more disconnected from my body, and I couldn't understand

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Nana Crawford: why I hadn't… why my bounce back hadn't got me feeling really, really great. So I stopped going to the gym and everything, and I put all the weight back on that I had worked to bounce back to, you know?

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Nana Crawford: And there was a time where I just felt really, really…

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Nana Crawford: sad about everything, and I decided that maybe the best thing for me to do is just focus on being a mum. If I focus on being a mum, then everything will fall into place, and life will be great.

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Nana Crawford: So I did that, I focused on my mothering duties, I focused on my career, I focused on my relationship with my husband, and there was still this, like, nagging voice

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Nana Crawford: in the back of my head that was just like, but why do we still feel so disconnected? Like, what's going on? And it was actually my husband that was just like, you need to find something to do for yourself, because you do everything for everyone else.

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Nana Crawford: But you don't really spend time doing stuff for yourself. So, that was the journey that sort of led me here, and I decided to

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Nana Crawford: go into dancing. I've always loved dancing. My parents have, you know, raised me and my sister, in a household filled with music. We've always had music. My parents are both really joyful, and they will find any occasion to dance, they will dance.

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Nana Crawford: So, I've always associated dance with joy, and that freedom, and that feeling, so I decided to get back into dancing, and I went to a samba class, and it was so difficult.

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Nana Crawford: And I was like, why am I doing this? But I loved it at the same time, and I couldn't explain that feeling that I had afterwards of trying something completely new.

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Nana Crawford: failing at it, but still feeling really successful in the fact that I've just done it for myself. And that feeling, I wanted to feel that all the time. So, I decided that I'm gonna learn Samba, and I'm gonna see where it takes me, and maybe by learning Samba, that will help me process

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Nana Crawford: you know, those feelings that I'm having about my body, and maybe… maybe the problem isn't bouncing back, maybe the problem is that I don't actually know who I am anymore, and that I don't know what my body can do anymore, and I haven't given myself

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Nana Crawford: the chance to get to know myself again, and that journey has basically led me to where I am now with… with Jiggle Fit. So.

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Nana Crawford: that journey, that process of dancing, of improving, of, you know, learning a new skill, of feeling accomplished in, you know, every time I go to a different class, I feel like I'm learning more and more, and that growth.

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Nana Crawford: has allowed me to almost reset the relationship that I have with my body. You know, like, I'm doing stuff with my body now that I couldn't do before, even when I was in a smaller body, and it's amazing how much you can achieve when you kind of say to yourself.

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Nana Crawford: Right, okay, I've had a baby, fine, I've had another baby, okay, fine.

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Nana Crawford: My body is not the same. It is not the same body that I used to have. So, let's get to know each other again, and let's work on that relationship, and that's…

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Nana Crawford: basically what I've really been working on. I'm still working on it today, you know, it's not a case of, right, I've done all this dance, I'm now a teacher, so now me and my body are like besties. There are days where I do sometimes feel like I'm waking up

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Nana Crawford: in a stranger's body, and I have to learn to love myself every day even more. And that's the journey that I'm trying to help others kind of go on, and that journey, for me, looks

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Nana Crawford: Jiggly. And the reason why I use the word jiggly is because the fitness industry always paints this picture of tight, toned bodies, right? Rock-hard abs, you hear all that all the time.

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Nana Crawford: And there is nothing in the fitness industry that talks or talks about celebrating your jiggles, and celebrating the wobbly bits, and all that kind of stuff, and that's… those are the bits that I had the hardest time

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Nana Crawford: getting to feel in my body when I started dancing, but once I kind of let go and just allowed myself to kind of jiggle freely.

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Nana Crawford: the more joy I felt, and the more, kind of, freedom I felt from that movement, and that's where, sort of, Jiggle Fit was born. It's, you know, fitness, a little bit of fitness, a whole lot of jiggles.

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Nana Crawford: And that's what I always say to people, if you come here, it's not, yes, I want to help you get fit, I want you to feel, movement, I want you to enjoy movement, but most importantly, I want you to feel the freedom that comes from just allowing your body to just jiggle and to move, and whatever jiggles you have.

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Nana Crawford: we'll move it, and we'll celebrate it, and we'll love it. And that has kind of been the journey for me. And as you were saying, along that journey, you will get people that still have that mind of what fitness should be, right? What fitness and structure should look like. And that if you are of, if you are in the fitness space.

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Nana Crawford: then…

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Nana Crawford: shouldn't you just be losing weight? Isn't that what your goal is? And it's like, well, no, actually, my goal was to get to know myself again, and to love myself again, and can't that be a goal that I can celebrate? You know, if someone wants to lose weight, that's great for them, that's their goal, but we can both exist within the same space and have different goals.

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Nana Crawford: and have different, you know, outcomes, and, you know, go about it in different ways. And that's the biggest message that I'm trying to fight now, is that I can look like how I look, I can do all the activities that I do, and it doesn't have to be related to weight loss.

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Nana Crawford: It doesn't have to be related to changing my body, it can just be related to loving myself, and enjoying my body, and enjoying the space that I'm in, and helping others do the same.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Ela Law: Yeah, oh, love that so much. Yeah, me too. Can I just jump in with a question? It sounds like…

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Ela Law: That sort of reconnection for you was very much…

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Ela Law: in the dancing, in the move, in your body, in a sort of a dance-type way. Yeah. Would you say there is something specific about dance that makes it easier to connect?

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Ela Law: I mean, not just for you, obviously for you that worked, but would you say, sort of, in general, dance is actually a really good medium to… to allow that to happen, that reconnection, that jiggle, that kind of freedom of movement, because a lot of other sort of exercise modalities are very structured, and very much, you have to do it like this, and often it's based on, you know, if you don't do it correctly, you could do yourself an injury. With dance, it seems

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Ela Law: Freer, just by default.

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Nana Crawford: Yeah, I would say that, like, I think what I love about dance is that it's so varied.

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Nana Crawford: It's so varied, and often I feel like people pigeonhole themselves in dance, and they'll see a dance and assume that they can't do it, and then think, oh, dance is not for them.

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Nana Crawford: And they're looking at it through this really tiny lens, when there's all this other dance styles and dance types happening all around them, and they're not opening themselves up to everything else. And I feel like that's why often a lot of people think that dance isn't for them.

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Nana Crawford: And it's not because it's not for you, it's because you haven't found the right thing, you know? And sometimes you have to go to one or two, or three, or four, even 10 lessons.

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Nana Crawford: to start to feel what it is that you're feeling, and to start to kind of know what is right. And, and especially depending on the style, there is structure in dance, and there is, you know, there are very certain steps that you do and everything else.

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Nana Crawford: But what makes it so enjoyable, and if you have the right teacher, they will encourage you to do the steps and then feel them.

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Nana Crawford: And feel them in your body, and feel them how it's supposed to feel for you, and for you to kind of interpret it the way that you want to interpret it. So, if it's like a shoulder shimmy, you know, like, do you like the shoulder shimmy? Do you not like the shoulder shimmy? If you don't like the shoulder shimmy, what's an alternative for you? And I think that often.

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Nana Crawford: people see dancers or dance instructors and think, right, they've done it like this, I have to do it exactly like that. And it's like, no, you can learn how they're doing it, and then you can decide whether you want to do it or not, and you can make that decision for yourself, and I feel like that's what makes dance so accessible.

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Nana Crawford: And I think people make it inaccessible by looking at it in that kind of rigid way, in that frame, and thinking, oh, salsa is like this, and I can't do that, you know? And also, it…

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Nana Crawford: it can be… I would say it can be difficult if you are of a certain shape or size, and the class that you're going to doesn't have anyone that feels representative of you.

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Nana Crawford: that can also make it feel exclusive, and that's another hurdle that you have to overcome when it comes to dance, but dance is for everyone. It's for everyone, and anyone of all shapes, of all sizes, of all abilities, and that is the message that I really, really want people to kind of understand, and to just…

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Nana Crawford: Book a cl… book a dance class and just go. Just go. Go. And just, what's the worst that can happen? You know, you can fail at it, but you did it. You know.

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Christine Chessman: We,

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Christine Chessman: And we talk a lot about dance, actually, Nana, but this is such a good conversation, because I recently started a contemporary dance class.

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Nana Crawford: Nice. Because I just, I felt called to do it, somehow.

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Christine Chessman: But I'm not the most graceful person, and the teacher was… he, you know, very, sort of, ballet dancer, very accomplished ballet dancer, and.

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Christine Chessman: Quite strict, lovely, but quite

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Christine Chessman: strict. And I couldn't get my toes to do the right thing, because my feet… my feet aren't great, they're not very mobile. I was in the beginners for a year and a half, and I kept thinking, is there any way I'm not going to be a beginner? Am I just gonna…

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, and so I think… I loved the class, and it pushed me, and it was hard, and I loved the music, and I loved moving to the music, but I felt so out of my depth.

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Christine Chessman: And I… it almost made me lose confidence, and…

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Christine Chessman: I felt… I feel more shy to dance now than I have ever done, and that's nothing to do with a teacher, he's great, but it just maybe wasn't the right…

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Christine Chessman: And I think what you're saying is really making me think, I've just pigeonholed the entire dance movement because of that one class.

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Nana Crawford: Yeah.

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Nana Crawford: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: And I'm sure I'm not alone in doing that.

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Nana Crawford: Yeah, and it's… it is… and that's why I feel like sometimes when you're… if you're going to a dance class, and you feel either really frustrated, you feel like you're not progressing, or you're kind of almost, like, regressing in a way emotionally, mentally.

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Nana Crawford: there are different things that you need to do. You need to try another variation of that style, so within that genre, you can pick a different style and see, actually, maybe I can try something else. Try the complete opposite. That's also something that will make you appreciate

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Nana Crawford: what you're currently doing, because you'll do something complete opposite and be like, oh my god, this is impossible. Let me just go back to that class and realize that I'm actually much better than I thought I was. Or talk to the teacher.

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Nana Crawford: often, I'll have people ask me about, you know, they'll say, oh, I've been coming to these classes, and I feel like I'm not progressing, and I can be the one to say, well, actually, you're progressing really, really well, because you're unaware, but when you came, you know, 3 weeks ago, you couldn't do this, and now you're doing it, and they're like, oh yeah!

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Ela Law: See ya.

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Nana Crawford: Because you get so… you're so in, you know, in your own head as well, a lot of the time, and that it's really hard to kind of even see your own progress, and to celebrate your own progress, and you'll often find that there are people around that are noticing that you're progressing.

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Nana Crawford: But people are often so shy to kind of talk to each other, or even, you know, say, like, well done, and so it's creating that environment. I always try and create that environment in my classes for people to

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Nana Crawford: be able to notice that that person's done really well, or to be able to, you know, say to a student, oh, last week you couldn't do this move, but now you're doing it. And they'll often be like, oh, yeah, actually, yeah, I couldn't do this move, and I am doing it. So…

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Nana Crawford: There are… there are lots of dancers out there, and maybe contemporary just wasn't…

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Nana Crawford: like, for you, or maybe even, like, now that you've done Contemporary as a base.

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Nana Crawford: there are lots of other dance styles that use contemporary as a base, you know, jazz. You could try jazz. Maybe the music will be more joyful and feeling for you, and you can take that into a different form. So, I would say that you can look at opening yourself up to lots of different dance styles.

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Christine Chessman: this…

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Ela Law: Yeah. It's very interesting, and I hadn't really considered that either, because I do like the idea of dancing. I don't think, like Christine, I'm probably not the best at it, but it's so easy to just want to do it perfectly, and not actually feeling it. It's way too easy for my brain, for sure, to go into, oh shit, I just completely didn't get that step, I cannot remember anything.

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Ela Law: I'm so bad at it. And I was saying, I think it was on a different point, on a previous recording, that I started a sort of dance fit class on a Monday night, and there are a couple of men, that's it, the rest is sort of

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Ela Law: Middle-aged women, sort of my age or older. And the two guys just can't remember anything.

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Ela Law: They've been doing it for weeks, they can't remember anything. They have the best time. They're just like, yeah, whatever, I'm just gonna jiggle here, I'm just gonna throw my arms up, and they're like, I'm coming back, and they've been doing it for ages. And that's the kind of feeling, I think, you were describing. It's just like, yeah, just feel it, just move, like.

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Nana Crawford: Yeah.

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Nana Crawford: What does it matter?

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Ela Law: If you get the steps wrong, right?

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Nana Crawford: Yeah, and sometimes it's helpful, like, if you can't decide on a dance, style or class, think about the music that you like to listen to.

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Nana Crawford: And that will often help you lead… lead you down to, you know, okay, well, if I really love listening to jazz, or I really love listening to soca, or I love high-energy kind of music, that can give you an indication of the kind of music that you want to hear in the class.

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Nana Crawford: If you're a super high-energy person, and you love music that's really high energy, then maybe a ballet class isn't right for you, because the music is going to be very different, the style is going to be very different, unless that's exactly what you're looking for, because you're so used to this

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Nana Crawford: you know, this type of genre. So, often I would… I say to people, like, what music do you like? When people ask me, like, for advice in terms of dance, I'd be like, what kind of music do you like?

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Nana Crawford: And then once they tell me, I'll be like, oh, actually, if you tried this type of style, that would be a really great style for you, because it's… it's music that you're familiar with, and once you're familiar with something, you kind of loosen up a little bit more, it feels a little bit more comfortable, and you'll find that you'll absorb whatever it is that you're doing a lot easier as well.

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Ela Law: Is that what drew you to Samba, then? And Soca?

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Nana Crawford: So, with samba, it was… I was the opposite in the sense that it was… it's one of… regardless of one of the hardest dances, in the kind of, like, Latin American space, so I was drawn to it because I thought, if this is really hard.

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Nana Crawford: maybe I can set myself a challenge to get really good at it.

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Nana Crawford: You know, in that way, and that was my goal. I was like, if I can get to the stage where it feels completely natural to me, or I can trick people into thinking that I'm gazillion.

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Nana Crawford: then maybe I've done a good enough job. So for me, it was more the challenger bit, as opposed to… and obviously, as I've gone through it, I've completely fallen in love with it, but yeah, it was more about the challenge. I was like…

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Ela Law: Right.

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Nana Crawford: This looks like a good enough challenge for me, and I don't know how long it's gonna be, but I'm gonna go for it.

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Ela Law: I love that. I love samba music. I've recently started samba drumming, so I could just kind of see that dancing it might actually be… I really enjoy the music. It's just, like, all the shimmying and all of the loose body thing that I struggle with, but I think maybe that's a good challenge, too.

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Nana Crawford: There you go! To take on!

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Christine Chessman: I… what you were talking about, we'll circle back to what you were… I don't like that phrase, circle back.

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Ela Law: No, we haven't found another one yet.

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Christine Chessman: I know, it's journey and circle back, we gotta go.

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Nana Crawford: I don't know. Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: But you were talking about… I'm really interested in this feeling, so you weren't… you didn't feel comfortable in your body, and it is that… or you didn't feel connected to your body, and it is… I always talk to clients who are having really bad body image struggles, or they're really not feeling good about themselves.

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Christine Chessman: I always encourage them to get into their body and move, and it is that… that sort of living body versus objectified body. It's like, rather than looking at yourself from the outside, how you imagine other people perceive you, it's trying to…

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Christine Chessman: how does your body feel? How do you want it to feel? And just really… and when you're moving your body, you are more in tune with it, because you don't really have… and it's… I find it so powerful.

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Nana Crawford: Yeah. And I wonder if you ever still have those days where you're not feeling great, maybe somebody.

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Christine Chessman: shitty online said something to you. Does it help? Does it…

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Christine Chessman: Would you turn to movement, or how would you, sort of, navigate those times?

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Nana Crawford: So, if I wake up, or if I read something, and it makes me feel, ugh, and that's probably the word that I would use to describe it, like, ugh, I will always do one of two things. I will watch my own progress.

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Nana Crawford: So I will go back through videos where I wasn't as good, and kind of almost celebrate the progress that I've made, because that, for me, is really validating to be like, look at how far you've come with your body. Look at how much you can move it now.

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Nana Crawford: You know? So that will always be one avenue that I'll turn to. And then the other avenue that I'll turn to is almost sitting down and thinking about the relationship I used to have versus the relationship I have now, and the things that I notice about myself now versus

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Nana Crawford: you know, what I completely ignored before, and also just championing the fact that

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Nana Crawford: I have a body that grew to humans, and that I have to celebrate the fact that.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Nana Crawford: you know, that that's happened, and I have to…

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Nana Crawford: enjoy that fact. Like, I didn't really like pregnancy. I didn't like being pregnant. Don't know why I did it twice, but I didn't like.

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Christine Chessman: No.

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Nana Crawford: pregnant, but I didn't mind birth. I actually didn't mind giving birth. That side of it for me was actually fine. But I didn't like the pregnancy side, and I think the reason I didn't like the pregnancy side was because I couldn't control what was happening.

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Nana Crawford: to me, I felt very… not in control. As I was getting bigger, I didn't feel like I could control the size that I was, I couldn't really control my cravings very much, and…

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Nana Crawford: everything felt out of control, and I think that sort of feeling is why I then had that sort of disconnect, and I tried to get it back by controlling and restricting myself, and moving in a way that felt like, right, I'm now in control of what's happening, rather than just accepting the

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Nana Crawford: That, you know, what has happened, and having a moment to process.

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Nana Crawford: to process. I don't think I really gave myself the time to say to my body, you know, thanks for carrying two kids, and thanks for getting them to this stage, and…

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Nana Crawford: you're an amazing body for doing that, and I… I think it was, maybe 2… maybe two years ago, we went on a holiday, and I actually wrote a letter to myself.

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Nana Crawford: To kind of, like.

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Nana Crawford: to almost say everything that I would say to my body. If my body was standing in front of me, these are the things that I would say. And I remember kind of reading it out loud and kind of making peace in that moment with myself, and I feel like we all kind of need to do that in those times.

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Nana Crawford: And then, yeah, and I just honestly just feel like…

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Nana Crawford: I have a new mission now, and I have a new goal, and that goal isn't just for others out there, but also for myself, and to kind of really stay grounded in this

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Nana Crawford: goal and this journey, and how hard I've worked to get to this stage, and I can't let someone who's gonna, you know, comment and be like, oh, fitness instructors should all have flat stomachs, and be like.

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Christine Chessman: mate, do you want to come samba with me? Yeah, exactly.

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Nana Crawford: heels, let's go. You know, 4 eighths of samba, let's see who lasts longest, you know? So, I always have to kind of remind myself of why I'm here and how I got here, and that really helps me kind of combat those negative Nancys out there.

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Christine Chessman: Do you know, I was… I did a running… I do a little running club, and one of my runners was kind of really worrying about her belly, and didn't like her belly. And one of my other runners said, I love my belly, because some of her… they used…

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Christine Chessman: Some fat from her tummy to reconstruct, doing a breast reconstruction after breast cancer.

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Nana Crawford: So she felt so connected and grateful.

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Christine Chessman: that she had enough on her belly so that that could actually be… That's amazing. Yeah, it just… the way she spoke about it in such a beautiful, loving way, and it made her so grateful.

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Christine Chessman: for her body exactly as it was, and it made us all go, oh, wow. You know, it just… it really stuck with me, because I think we're so hard on ourselves, and our.

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Nana Crawford: Oh, she's working.

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Christine Chessman: So hard, they're working so hard.

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Christine Chessman: to kind of keep us alive and keep us thriving, and do you know what? Most people… you're not, you know, if you don't have a… everybody's supposed to be different. Bodies are diverse for a reason, and we're all trying to fit this, you know, white supremacist patriarchal ideal of the thin body, when actually that's not our…

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Nana Crawford: What do you type us not, or…

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Christine Chessman: You know, we can force ourselves into it, but you will fight it your entire life. You will fight, fight, fight, fight, fight to keep that.

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Christine Chessman: And, you know, your body just won't be a happy body. So, sorry, I'll get off my soapbox tonight, but I just… I just… I love what your… your mission, it just makes me so happy.

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Christine Chessman: I don't know, it makes me want to get into dance again, Ella.

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Ela Law: Right, me too. I'm looking at… I'm gonna look up samba classes in the area.

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Nana Crawford: Fine!

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Ela Law: Yeah, I think, I think, Christine, you're right, I think we are so mean to ourselves, but I think we're mean mostly to how our bodies look, rather than what our bodies can do, because if we.

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Nana Crawford: You really…

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Ela Law: stopped and reflected on it, and did what Nana did, like, just write a letter to ourselves, our bodies, we would actually realize how much they do for us, how much they enable us to do, how much they help us experience the world. But because we're so damn focused on what they look like, and seeing them as a thing, as an object, rather than an instrument, that's what kind of completely

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Ela Law: sidetracks us, doesn't it? I'm sure when you ask someone, they're all going to be grateful that, you know, they are able to do whatever they're able to do.

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Ela Law: But this other thing drowns everything, any gratefulness out, this, like, oh, I don't look… I need to lose some… I need to, you know, my hair, my skin, my wrinkles, my whatever, that drowns everything else out, doesn't it? Yeah.

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Nana Crawford: I would recommend to, like, if anyone feels like they don't really have that appreciation for what their body can do, make a list. Like, honestly, make a list. I have a Google, keep

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Nana Crawford: set a file, and I have a note, and every time I achieve something, I write it down.

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Nana Crawford: So I'll just be like, oh, I went to class today, and I've learned how to do this move.

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Nana Crawford: or I noticed that, you know, I can actually raise onto my toes much higher than I could before. And there… and it doesn't matter how big, it's not… it's not about the size of the celebration and what it is that you can do. It can be the smallest thing from, like, I didn't understand how to move my arms in this move, you know, two weeks ago, now I get it.

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Nana Crawford: you know, not necessarily I'm doing it well, but I get it, I understand it, and my body kind of, like, it's starting to settle into my body, and the more that you can kind of keep adding to that list, when you go back to it, you'll just see that progression and kind of see… see it happening. And also, if you can

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Nana Crawford: timestamp it, then that's a really great way to kind of mark that journey that you've been on, and to be able to kind of really see the growth that you have. Especially if you're one of those people that doesn't like to see your own body on camera, and that's… I get people who come to class and

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Nana Crawford: They want to make progress, but they don't want to film themselves, because they feel they're still kind of having that journey. So I'll say to them, okay, well, let's write stuff down. Let's write something that you've done this week that you've, you know, been able to… let's celebrate this. You've been able to move your bum up. Great!

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Nana Crawford: Let's tick that off, you know? I can move my bum up. Great. You know, so it doesn't have to be… it doesn't always have to be visual, especially if you are still trying to kind of cope with seeing yourself in that way. You can write it down, and you can kind of, like, use words to help you navigate those feelings.

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Christine Chessman: So it's like, I love the messages, if I ever get from clients, like, oh, I was able to lift my daughter over my shoulder today without any problem. Like, they send me these little messages that they were able to do stuff that they weren't able to do because they've built strength in their body, or they've moved.

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Nana Crawford: We've done it.

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Christine Chessman: different way. And there's nothing better for me and for them to actually write that down and realize, look, I have made that progress. Yeah. You know, I was here. And I think that's such a nice thing to do, isn't it, Ella?

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Ela Law: Yeah, it has relevance to your actual life.

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Christine Chessman: Yay.

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Nana Crawford: Yeah. Mmm. Yeah, yeah.

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Ela Law: We… we have questions, but haven't asked any of them yet. Go on, ask questions.

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Christine Chessman: Just this one, so when you're talking, I… I love what you're saying, because I feel the same. I… I very much am goal-driven. It's… my goals change, so rather than you having that… that one… maybe you've got loads of different goals, I'm sure you do. Yeah. But, I can…

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Christine Chessman: go too hard, so I can push myself, because… but I do also really love working hard and moving and feeling it, you know? So, there's that fine line between pushing yourself, punishing yourself.

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Nana Crawford: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: How do you tread that?

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Nana Crawford: So most of the time, it will be someone else that reminds me that that's happening, honestly, because I can get so into it, that I kind of, like, have my… like, have everything… everything is here. I'm laser-focused on this thing.

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Nana Crawford: And I can't see it happening, so the best people to help you navigate that are the people that are closest to you.

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Nana Crawford: that see you in your everyday, that see you, kind of, like, going for your goals, but then you're not taking any breaks, or you're not doing that. So, my husband is my, kind of, check-in, so he will be like.

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Nana Crawford: what's going on? Hello? You know, like, let's snap out of it, you're spending too much time on this thing, or, you know, okay, so what if you don't do this thing today? Like, what's… what's gonna happen? Nothing's gonna happen, you know? So I would always say that you need to have a buddy. If you can have a buddy that can help

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Nana Crawford: keep you in check, but also take you out of that focus from time to time. It's a really great way for you to make… just so that you don't put all that pressure on yourself, because you are one person, and it's very hard to… to go for your goals, to push really hard, but then also remind yourself to take a step back.

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Nana Crawford: So, it's okay to have someone else do that for you, and it's also okay to accept that someone else has to do that for you. That was something that I could not do at the beginning, was accept that I needed help.

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Nana Crawford: Or that, you know, I couldn't do everything on my own, and to have

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Nana Crawford: Someone there to be… to remind you that it's okay to ask for help, and it's okay to…

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Nana Crawford: to have someone, you know, check in on you, that that's completely fine. So I would say that for me, especially, it's having someone there to help pull me out of those moments where I feel like I am punishing myself, but I can't see it.

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Nana Crawford: Because I feel like I'm going for my goals and doing all this, but I'm missing my lunches, or I'm spending too much time on my phone, or, you know, all this kind of stuff, or I'm writing down 100 ideas, but not doing any of them. So…

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Nana Crawford: Yeah, so my husband is, like, my check-in for that.

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Ela Law: I love that. I like that a lot, and I think you're bang on with the fact that asking for help can be really, really tricky. I mean, it's another thing that society has taught us, right? We need to do everything.

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Nana Crawford: Everything else.

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Ela Law: selves.

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Nana Crawford: Yeah! It's a terrible message!

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Nana Crawford: the worst message, because, like, yes, you can go for your goals, and yes, there is a strength in being able to achieve something by yourself, but also there's equally something great about being able to achieve it with the help of others.

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Ela Law: Definitely.

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Nana Crawford: Being able to kind of invite people in as you're going through that journey and going through whatever it is that you're trying to achieve. And, you know, no one has ever achieved anything

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Nana Crawford: just solely by themselves, you know, because it might be something they think they've done themselves, but maybe the idea came from someone else.

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Nana Crawford: You know, and people kind of often overlook that, or a conversation they had with someone that led them to have this idea, and then they've forgotten the fact that they had this conversation. You know, someone that lent them 10 pounds that they were able to buy this thing that has now… So, there's always that connection. There's always something, and there's always someone that's helped you to do something as well. It's just paying attention and taking notice of it.

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Ela Law: Becoming aware of that, definitely, I like that a lot.

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Christine Chessman: I had a question down, which was, you're… I love your tagline, that's not the right word, the handle, your handle. So, this black woman can.

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Nana Crawford: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: I… well done for getting that, because that's… I mean, there's some that are just, oh, that is just the best. And this is not up to you to answer, so I don't know why I'm asking it, but I just want to… I want to bring it up, because it's really important to me.

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Nana Crawford: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: How can we as white women in the fitness space, how can we elevate Marginalized voices in the space.

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Christine Chessman: you know, and so I'm doing an inclusive kettlebell course at the minute with Demali Fraser, who I absolutely love. But, you know, she makes the point that you can say you're inclusive, but are you inclusive? So, are you paying lip service too, or are you actually being inclusive?

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Nana Crawford: Yeah. And I'm just interested to know what…

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Christine Chessman: how you feel in terms of people in the space elevating, or so, you know, how do we promote more Black-owned businesses in the fitness space?

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Nana Crawford: Yeah, I think… I mean, there are so many elements to it, but the main thing that I'll always say to people is try not to follow trends.

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Nana Crawford: Right? So, if it's Black History Month, let's take Black History Month, for example.

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Nana Crawford: Black History Month, you're thinking, okay, great, it's Black History Month, this is a great time for me to support Black businesses, to help push out Black businesses, and, you know, I've seen this thing that someone's… initiative that someone's doing, I'm gonna support it, great.

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Nana Crawford: And then Black History Month finishes.

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Christine Chessman: And that's it.

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Nana Crawford: And then that's it. You know, don't hold yourself to that trend and say to yourself, okay, well, it's this month, I'm gonna do everything I can this month, and then that's it. Think about what comes after that. You know, if you have started during Black History Month, don't end it during Black History Month.

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Nana Crawford: You know, carry on, carry on those relationships, carry on the…

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Nana Crawford: The journey that you're going on, whatever it is that you're learning, the people that you're promoting, be… if you're interested in their story, be interested in their story.

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Christine Chessman: You know, not just for that month, but, you know, continuing and moving forward as well. And also recognize where your place is within that.

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Nana Crawford: within that story, and where, like, how you fit into that puzzle. So if you are, for example, if you are really interested in a dance style that's not of your culture, but you're helping to promote it, then speak to the people that are in that culture, and say, what can I do to help promote this? How can I help elevate

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Nana Crawford: you know, what it is that you're doing, and, you know, share it with other people. Can I come to a class and see what it feels like? And, you know, talk to people that come to a class and see how I can better,

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Nana Crawford: talk about it and navigate it as well. And I feel like often there's this disconnect in the sense of we want to help, you know, people want to help people in marginalized communities, from here.

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Nana Crawford: You know, from this, that they don't want to go over into, because they feel like they don't belong in that space. Well, it's like, well, actually, why don't you talk to people so you can be invited into that space? And once you're invited into that space, respect the fact that you're in that space, respect the culture, respect their voices.

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Nana Crawford: And do the work in that space. And, you know, and also, don't take offense if they're like, no.

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Nana Crawford: Because they're also allowed to say, actually, you know what? I don't really want you in this space. You can go, okay, you know, that's cool, that's fine, and, you know, don't take offense to it, and, you know, move on, but also still keep on that education that you're doing.

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Nana Crawford: with yourself. I think inclusive is a really interesting word, because it actually means different things to different people, and what you'll often find is that when people say they're inclusive and you go to their class.

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Nana Crawford: And you see everyone that looks exactly the same as the person that's teaching the class, or, you know, you start to wonder, okay, what does inclusive.

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Christine Chessman: of Maine, yeah.

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Nana Crawford: for them? Is it inclusive because they've got a really great time, you know? Like, I've spoken to, an instructor, it was a couple of years ago, who said that they were super, super inclusive because, you know, they do classes, you know, all year, all year round, and I was like, that's not inclusive.

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Nana Crawford: That's just… sorry, that's just… Terrible. That's just terrible.

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Nana Crawford: I was like, I don't even know what the word is. That's not inclusive. I was like, inclusive is when you are actively trying to welcome people from all different types of backgrounds, and you know your own limitations within that, and you think about the language that you're using, you think about how you

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Nana Crawford: how you're, portraying yourself, you know? You think about your advertising, you think about… all of those things make you more inclusive, not the fact that you're open from 3 till 6 instead of 6 till 7. You know, and I was just like, wow, that was the first.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Nana Crawford: Okay, so inclusive really does mean different things for different people, so as…

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Nana Crawford: As a fitness, instructor, or a dance instructor, or a teacher, a leader, whatever it is, if you're saying that you're inclusive, you have to really decide what does that mean for you.

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Ela Law: Mmm.

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Nana Crawford: And also be happy with that meaning, you know, and be happy with whatever it is that it means for you. And if someone calls you out on it, be willing to have the conversation, you know, don't just be really standoffish, be willing to have that conversation to say.

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Nana Crawford: oh, actually, you know, maybe I am not as inclusive as I thought.

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Nana Crawford: I was being. Because I've had people message me to say, you know, like, I would love to come to the classes, but I know that they're very heavily, women. There's lots of women in your classes, and I've had some guys message me to say they want to come to my class, but it's all women, and you say that you're really inclusive, can I come to the class? And I go, yeah, you can come to the class, but if you're going to come to the class just to stare at bums, then no, you can't come to the class, because that's not the…

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Nana Crawford: purpose of the class, and I'm willing to, you know, have that conversation and call people out if they have the wrong agenda.

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Nana Crawford: You know, so it's just about, you know, I am inclusive, but if you come to the class, you're coming because you want to learn, because you want to be part of this community, because you want to celebrate yourself and each other, not because you want to stand there and gawk at, you know, all these delicious bums in front of you. So, I would say that, like.

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Nana Crawford: Trying to go back to the point that you were saying, is that you want to…

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Nana Crawford: If you're going to support

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Nana Crawford: The work that people are doing, then make sure that it doesn't have an expiry date.

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Christine Chessman: Very good point.

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Ela Law: Yeah, otherwise it's just performative, isn't it? Exactly. Just performing to whatever. I love… I love your perspective on that, that's really… it's A really helpful to hear, also quite…

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Ela Law: thought-provoking in the sense of, I think we should all probably think about how inclusive we are, and as you said, if we are not.

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Ela Law: understanding where is… where is that, where is that sort of block? Yeah. And also, there are some spaces that are meant to be mostly for women. Yeah. And is…

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Ela Law: exclusivity in that sense, actually a safer space, and just like, you know, there are probably loads of,

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Ela Law: black organizations that actually want to feel safe, and therefore have that exclusivity, and…

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Ela Law: to understand that that is also okay, that is also… Yeah.

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Ela Law: a healthy way of setting boundaries, as in, as you said earlier, if someone says, no, actually, I would rather you didn't.

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Ela Law: Join.

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Ela Law: to understand, well, that's, you know, that is okay. That is… Yeah.

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Ela Law: You know, appointed me.

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Nana Crawford: And there's… there's plenty of… I would say there is plenty of spaces for people that aren't from marginalized communities.

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Ela Law: 100%.

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Nana Crawford: And you have to recognize that, you know? So when there is a group… so, for example, if there's a running group for Black women, don't feel like, oh, well, I should be, you know, I should be part of that group.

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Nana Crawford: but I'm not a Black woman, da-da-da-da, and it's like, well, okay, but why don't you find a running group

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Nana Crawford: the…

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Nana Crawford: you know, for other women. I'm sure there are other groups that include, you know, all sorts of people, not just

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Nana Crawford: you go for that one because you think, I need to be in that group, right? So, I think often that sometimes you see something and you just think, oh, well, why aren't they including me? It's like, well, actually ask yourself that. Why aren't they including you? Maybe because they don't… they feel that there's so many things out there already for you.

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Nana Crawford: there's nothing for them, and that's why they've made this group, you know? And often people don't see it that way. They just think, oh, they've started this thing, they've kept it closed, and, you know, and it's just like that, so…

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Nana Crawford: Yeah.

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Ela Law: Yeah, there's that viewpoint that inclusivity means that the non-marginalized people need to be included in everything, where, as you said, they have already got everything on their plate. So, you know…

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, I recently joined a boxing class, and it's for women and marginalized genders, and I sort of asked, it didn't say on the website, so I said, is it okay, I'm straight, is it alright if I join?

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Christine Chessman: And, the… the lead… the leader, Christina, who owns it, was like, oh, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry. And I was like, you don't need to apologize to me. I'm like, you don't have to start apologizing to straight women.

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Christine Chessman: Like, do you know what I mean? She is a gay woman who created this amazing space, and I almost felt, is it okay for me to join? Because I didn't want to…

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Christine Chessman: take that space from somebody in a marginalized body that… you know what I mean? I didn't… but it… but equally, this is… we talked to Trey about this as well. These spaces feel very safe, because

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Christine Chessman: They are welcoming and inclusive and…

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Christine Chessman: But that doesn't mean they're for you, as you just said, Ella, so it is about those boundaries, isn't it?

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Ela Law: Fantastic.

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Christine Chessman: Having those hard conversations sometimes, which are okay to have, you know.

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Ela Law: Oh, yeah.

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Nana Crawford: And uncomfortable, as well. Like, it's equally uncomfortable for the people who create the group than it is for you to ask questions, you know? So, you have to both, kind of, have that respect, and that's what I was kind of referring to earlier, is you have to have that respect for what it is that they've created.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Nana Crawford: They have said no. They've said no for a reason. They haven't said no because they hate you. They don't know you.

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Nana Crawford: You know, they don't know you, they've said no, because what they've created doesn't include you right now, you know? And it's okay, because it doesn't include you.

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Nana Crawford: Yeah, but yes, let's not make it a trend, let's make it a real… a real effort, and real work, and… and know that the real… real work takes time. Yeah. As well. You know, it's not… there's no shortcut, as much as social media will make you believe that you can do something in 20 seconds.

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Nana Crawford: 10 seconds, or 3 days, or 5 days, you know, all that… all that kind of stuff. The real work takes a lot longer.

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Ela Law: Yeah, don't we know it in terms of diet space, right?

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Christine Chessman: Before we let you go, because we've taken up so much of your precious time, what is next for you? What goals do you have with Jiggle Fit?

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Nana Crawford: I'm sure you…

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Christine Chessman: I have lots. Lots.

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Nana Crawford: I have so many goals. I think… I think my next goal, especially with Jiggle Fit, is to try and kind of, like.

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Nana Crawford: onboard more instructors. I would love to get more instructors involved, because at the moment, it's just…

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Nana Crawford: me. Like, me, myself, and I. And I know that there are people out there who feel the same way that I feel, especially within the fitness space, and would love to, help

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Nana Crawford: plenty of people on their journey, and maybe don't have an avenue to be able to do that, so I would love to be able to do that, and I would love to be able to kind of take Jiggle Fit

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Nana Crawford: worldwide, essentially. I would love to be able to do that. And yeah, and just allow people to kind of experience

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Nana Crawford: the classes that I've worked really hard on, kind of, cultivating and being able to… to teach more people, and I always say that, you know, if I can help one person feel extra jiggly and extra special.

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Christine Chessman: Excellent.

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Nana Crawford: joyful every day, then I've done my job.

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Christine Chessman: Oh, we're gonna have to end on that, that's absolutely beautiful. Nana, it's been such a pleasure. We've absolutely loved, haven't we, Ella?

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Ela Law: Absolutely, so really lovely to meet you.

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Nana Crawford: Carl, thank you!

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Christine Chessman: We're gonna put all your details in the show notes, but where could people contact you if they want to… your website, probably the best?

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Nana Crawford: Yeah, so they can just go to Jigglefit.com, and it's fit with two Ts, or they can just message me on This Black Woman Can, on my Instagram, and I'm always open for a chat as well, and if people are looking to start their jiggle journey, but they don't know where to begin, then yeah, hit me up.

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Christine Chessman: Oh, Chickle Tourney!

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Nana Crawford: niggles.

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Christine Chessman: Perfect! It's so cool, isn't it? Now we can get on board with the word journey. Yeah, jiggle journey.

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Ela Law: Jiggle journey.

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Christine Chessman: Brilliant! You have to trademark that immediately. Yes.

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Nana Crawford: Okay, alright.

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Christine Chessman: Thanks again, Nana.

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Nana Crawford: Oh, thank you so much.

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Ela Law: Thank you so much.