How To Tell if Your Relationship with Exercise is Disordered.

Another fiery episode today where we talk about the tell-tale signs of overexercise as well as some tips for getting back into movement, after a long period of absence.

Untangling weight loss and movement is one of the hardest parts of rebuilding our relationship with our bodies.  For many of us, coming from a disordered eating background, it can be all too easy to replace restriction with overexercising.  We're still maintaining that felt sense of 'control' over our bodies.  We can cope with listening to our bodies'  hunger cues, as long as we can also do the calorie-burning classes and manipulate our bodies through movement.

Our takeaways:

• After a long period of restriction/ disordered eating and punishing exercise, you may need to step away from organised exercise for a while.  
• Coming back to movement gives you the opportunity, to get curious about what you'd actually LIKE to do and what feels good in your body.
• You don't have to subscribe to joyful movement.  If you simply don't enjoy movement, you're not doing anything wrong and you are not alone. 
• Start with 5 minutes and get it into your routine. Once embedded, add another short session each week until you're able to do more, without feeling triggered by old diet culture thoughts or beliefs. EVERY LITTLE TINY BIT OF MOVEMENT COUNTS
• Find a coach, who you relate to. A coach who listens to you and can write a program for you that will spark your interest and give your flexibility to adjust your workouts according to your energy levels and capacity.

Have a listen to this episode and let us know what you think.

The movement piece of rebuilding trust with our bodies is arguably the toughest, especially if you've always used it as a way to earn your food.  You are not alone in this fight and our wish for you, is that someday you will find true strength and empowerment in movement.

Transcript

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Ela Law (she/her): Hello, hello!

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Christine Chessman: Hello, hello. I'm gonna sit really close to the screen, because I'm worried about my microphone not working very well.

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Ela Law (she/her): And then we can see your lovely face a little bit closer, that's nice.

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Ela Law (she/her): How are you?

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, I'm alright. We were just talking about it. Busy, busy, busy day, and it's… it's… it's hustle culture, annoys the crap out of me, but you can't get… help getting sucked in a little bit.

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Ela Law (she/her): Oh, yeah, I know what you mean.

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Christine Chessman: You've got to really think about… this… I think it's… maybe it's a British cultural thing, but it is just from one thing, it's the other. Kids have activities, kids have stuff, so you plan out your day.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: See, logistics, logistics, and when do you actually just sit and…

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Ela Law (she/her): Enjoy.

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Christine Chessman: You know, anyway.

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Ela Law (she/her): Rarely, rarely. And then we feel bad for doing it. Oh. Right? Yeah.

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Ela Law (she/her): Right. I wanted to ask you in particular, and wanted to talk to you about this, because you're the…

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Ela Law (she/her): the movement expert, amongst us. Because this is something that's been coming up in conversation, either directly, because people tell me, or indirectly, because they make a comment that makes me think, hmm…

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Ela Law (she/her): And that is about… Movement and exercise, and when does it become…

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Ela Law (she/her): an excuse to eat, an unhelpful tool, a thing that is a little bit compulsive, and how do we draw the line between looking after our bodies, which we absolutely do when we move.

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Ela Law (she/her): And when is it becoming an issue? Because we're doing… doing it not…

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Ela Law (she/her): too much is maybe not the right word, but you know what I mean, when we're doing it for almost the wrong reasons.

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Christine Chessman: Well, it's just… I mean, this is such a good question, because, before Christmas, I had lots of people come into classes, because they were like, oh, you know, I'm going to be eating so much at Christmas, so I need to exercise now, so I'm not feeling too guilty about it, and that's where you can just tell there's so many people with that mindset.

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Christine Chessman: They've eaten a lot over Christmas, and now they're gonna have to exercise. They often punish themselves, you know, for that amount of food, rather than just going, oh, I really enjoyed that food, that was lovely, and then getting back into routine, which… and your body is very smart. Your body knows, like.

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Christine Chessman: what to do… but anyway, so I'm getting off tangent, but yes, exercise is an amazing tool for health, for mental health, for physical health, for bone health, joint, it's great.

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Christine Chessman: But it can be misused.

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Christine Chessman: So, it's… and I always draw the parallel to intuitive eating, because I think

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Christine Chessman: Lots of people, when they start going down the intuitive eating path, or they just want to stop dieting, really struggle with movement, because they've always tied both together, so they've always been dieting and exercise, because it's…

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Christine Chessman: Part of it, isn't it?

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah. Jodie.

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Christine Chessman: classes, you do all the cardio, you do the burn classes, the sculpt classes, the.

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Christine Chessman: hot yoga classes, or whatever it is. Now there's freaking hot fitness pilates. Shut up.

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Christine Chessman: Just do Pilates. You don't freaking need hot fitness pilates. No, no, no, that's not what it's about.

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Ela Law (she/her): I think that would make me really, really angry. I hate being hot at the best of times, and if I had to move…

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Christine Chessman: Oh, and Pilates.

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Ela Law (she/her): No.

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Ela Law (she/her): Stop it!

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Christine Chessman: But yeah, so it's… it's one of these things I have taken a long time to get my head around, and I'm really getting there, so I just…

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Christine Chessman: sort of anecdotally, this year, as I've said before, I was going to run a marathon, because I'm 50… not yet, but soon.

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Ela Law (she/her): Please tell me that that's not a prerequisite of turning 50, because I'm not planning on running a bloody marathon.

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Christine Chessman: I was going to, because, you know, for some reason I felt I had to show, oh, even though I'm 15, I can still do.

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Ela Law (she/her): I can still do it.

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Christine Chessman: And then I thought, that's ridiculous, I could just have a nice time.

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Christine Chessman: not go 20-mile runs every, you know, and I was like, well, that is gross right there.

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Ela Law (she/her): Mmm…

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Christine Chessman: And, you know, I have other little goals that I have.

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Christine Chessman: other stuff that I want to do, but it's not as…

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Christine Chessman: all-consuming, and it's enjoyable, and there's lots of room for flexibility, and… restructuring,

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Christine Chessman: And whereas at the beginning of my intuitive eating journey, in invert commas.

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Christine Chessman: I just exercise to replace the food, so I was like, okay, I'm eating more normally, in inverted commas, but I'll just exercise more than I've ever done before.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: Because that'll assuage the guilt and the shame,

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Christine Chessman: And that never works, because you're replacing one thing with the other.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah, yeah.

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Ela Law (she/her): That's… yeah, I think the key word of what you just, sort of, the last few sentences you said is flexibility, and I think that's the hardest thing to… to learn, really, and to come by, because…

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Ela Law (she/her): we're so used to being in a very rigid pattern of doing certain things, and as you said, I think you're… you're…

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Ela Law (she/her): bang on with the, oh, I'm eating more normally, I'm eating more, basically, that's code for eating more. And, therefore I need to move more.

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Ela Law (she/her): Because otherwise my body will change. Otherwise, I'll put on weight, and I cannot possibly deal with that. So I think there are always repercussions, and I think the clients that I've worked with who struggled with

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Ela Law (she/her): A sort of a normal relationship to exercise and movement? Or did it because they started

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Ela Law (she/her): Seeing it as an excuse to eat more.

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Ela Law (she/her): And coming out of that, I think, is the next step of the… food seems to be easy. People seem to be like, oh yeah, yeah, I ate what I wanted, I listened to my hunger cues, and I finished when I was full, I noticed I'm eating more. However, I'm now going to the gym every day, or I'm…

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Christine Chessman: Then, like, then food isn't easy.

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Ela Law (she/her): No. Well.

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Christine Chessman: All you're doing is…

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Ela Law (she/her): surface…

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Christine Chessman: You might be eating.

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Christine Chessman: But you're, you're sort of.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: discounting, or what's the word? You're calculating how much exercise you need.

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Ela Law (she/her): Exactly.

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Christine Chessman: So it's not actually…

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Ela Law (she/her): It's pseudo-permission to eat, because you're having a little way out. But I feel like, from the people that I've worked with in the past, that's something that most people really struggle with.

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Ela Law (she/her): And then that sort of has an impact on their relationship to exercise, because if they then don't exercise, they feel really bad. And then the guilt comes with the eating, and the guilt comes for not exercising, so you find yourself, sort of, from one issue moving into the next.

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Ela Law (she/her): And it's a fine line, isn't it, between, sort of.

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Ela Law (she/her): I think the thing that I'm really curious about is how do you balance by, you know, exercising and moving in a way that feels good and is actually really good for your body? As you said, bone health, joint health.

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Ela Law (she/her): you know, muscle, mass, all of that, mobility, all of that is really, really important, especially as we get older. But where do you know where the line is between, I'm doing enough for all of that, but I'm not slipping into that, I'm moving so I can eat?

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Christine Chessman: It's… so there's lots of different signals and signs. It's kind of… if, for example, if somebody said, do you fancy going away for the weekend, or do you fancy, you know, if your best friend comes into town and wants to meet, or something like that?

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Christine Chessman: and you're nervous about meeting them because you've got training to do. So it's that if you get, oh, panicky about cancelling training, or if it's getting in the way of your life, if you're, constantly exhausted.

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Ela Law (she/her): Hmm.

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Christine Chessman: Feeling sore all the time.

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Christine Chessman: don't have energy, so really, we're looking at movement should give you some energy. Obviously, in life, we can struggle with tiredness, because none of us are sleeping.

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Christine Chessman: But, certainly, there's lots of little signs that you're overdoing the movement side of things, and I don't think movement needs to be joyful at all. I think that…

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Christine Chessman: extra pressure on us. I think, oh, you know, great, I do enjoy movement, but a vast majority of my clients really don't enjoy it.

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Christine Chessman: Really enjoy the feeling.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yes.

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Christine Chessman: self-efficacy. They're like, whoa, I lifted, like, 20 kilos above my head. It's like that sense of achievement, and that, you know, it's…

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Ela Law (she/her): they love seeing the progression in terms of weights, and how strong they feel and all of that kind of stuff.

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Christine Chessman: So I've lost my train of thought.

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Ela Law (she/her): It's finding a different, a different aim of, you know, why are you exercising?

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Christine Chessman: And this is the problem I have, Ella, with intuitive eating community. I don't really have a problem with them, they're all amazing. But, it's the idea that you have to be Joyful Movement Brigade.

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Ela Law (she/her): No, no, no, no, movement does not always have to be joyful. Find movement that's joyful. That's great. And, you know, dance around your living room, absolutely. Do something that feels good for your body.

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Christine Chessman: But it's also okay to walk outside for an hour, and, you know, it's a bit of work. It's also okay to kind of do a bit of mobility training so that your knees are… can walk, and can dance, and do… you know, it doesn't always have to be joyful, and I think some people don't enjoy movement, and haven't historically, because of the tie with diet culture.

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Christine Chessman: So the fact that they have to now feel, oh, if I can't find something joyful, I'm failing.

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Christine Chessman: It's ridiculous.

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Christine Chessman: To me, it's…

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: understand the…

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Christine Chessman: the reasoning behind it, because you want to… movement has been punishment, so you want to have… but there is that messy middle, and I think most of us live there, and it's okay to live there.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: Do you know what?

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah, I do… I do know what you mean. I think… I think we have a problem with all of these terms that we use, joyful movement. Intuitive eating in and of itself isn't the greatest way of explaining what you're doing when you are intuitively eating, because sometimes you need a bit of structure. Sometimes you need to eat.

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Ela Law (she/her): When you're not hungry, sometimes you need to eat something that you're not enjoying massively.

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Ela Law (she/her): and I think, going back to the word flexibility, I think that is really key, and the joyful movement, yes, I completely agree with you. When I did a Pilates class this morning, I can honestly tell you that out of 45 minutes, I maybe enjoyed one minute.

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Ela Law (she/her): Because that is when we did a stretch that was… felt really good in my body. The rest was bloody hard.

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Ela Law (she/her): And I didn't enjoy it, but now I'm feeling great. I feel like I've got energy because I did it. So the movement itself doesn't have to be joyful, but…

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Ela Law (she/her): you… I think that's why the intuitive eating principle is called Movement Feel the Difference. So it's about how do you feel? Do you actually feel more energized? Do you feel stronger? Do you feel fitter? Do you feel…

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Ela Law (she/her): more mobile. I think that's the focus. Therefore, joyful movement isn't the greatest term, is it, for it?

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Christine Chessman: And, we just have to apologize to Evelyn Tribley and Elise Resch for saying it's not the greatest term, it's amazing, we love them.

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Christine Chessman: We have a meeting, it's wonderful.

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Ela Law (she/her): But it's really hard to find the right words, because it's so nuanced, isn't it? And it's not… Some people might really enjoy it, but some people might not, and still get lots of benefit.

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Christine Chessman: Well, here's… here's an example. So, Matt and I run a lovely running group on a Wednesday evening, which is the Wednesday Night Shufflers slow running group.

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Ela Law (she/her): Love the name!

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Christine Chessman: My favourite class.

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Ela Law (she/her): flows.

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Christine Chessman: about my other classes. I love all my classes, but this is… I just love.

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Ela Law (she/her): But last night, it was blowing a gale, and it was raining heavily. We were… we run on the seafront, which is currently covered in stones.

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Christine Chessman: Because all the…

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Ela Law (she/her): Oh my gosh.

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Christine Chessman: It's like being thrown onto the promenade. And, you know people did not want to go running.

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Christine Chessman: And I said, look, I know you don't want to go, I know the weather's crap, but…

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Ela Law (she/her): let's just… because we want to build this habit, we want to keep running so we can keep running, so we can keep moving and just feeling good in our bodies. Everybody was like, okay, let's do it.

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Christine Chessman: And during it, it was not fun, with the rain in your face and the wind just howling.

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Christine Chessman: But, equally, afterwards, we all felt amazing. It was our favorite run, because we felt so…

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Christine Chessman: empowered afterwards. It was like, wow, we actually did that.

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Ela Law (she/her): I just stayed home in the warm.

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Christine Chessman: Do you know what I mean? So that… that was an example of, actually, it wasn't joyful at the time.

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Christine Chessman: And it was… you know, I could have been… would I have been being kind to myself to stay home?

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Ela Law (she/her): Hmm…

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Christine Chessman: There's the line between kindness to yourself and punishing yourself.

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Ela Law (she/her): No.

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Christine Chessman: that was punishing yourself, but actually, for me, that was joyful, and for the group, it was…

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah, and I think that is where… that's where it becomes really nuanced about, you know, are you punishing yourself?

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Ela Law (she/her): If you… I think if you asked, like, 100 people, would you rather stay at home and watch telly, or go and do a workout, the majority would… 95% probably would say, oh, I'd rather watch telly, thank you very much.

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Ela Law (she/her): and therefore might see the 5% who actually say, no, I'll go to the gym, thanks, as punishing themselves.

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Ela Law (she/her): So, it's a… this is a really… this is a really interesting thing, because I think when you do something that maybe doesn't immediately sing to you, and you think, oh wow, I can't wait to do this.

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Ela Law (she/her): it's very easy to use that as an excuse not to do something, but then if we do it, I think we're not only

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Ela Law (she/her): actually reaping the benefits of it, but we're also becoming more resilient. That's something that just popped into my head, because if we are working through some discomfort, which is what we always say we need to do, we need to sit in the suck, we need to sit with discomfort.

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Ela Law (she/her): That is a really good way of practicing discomfort, is by saying, yes, my leg hurt a little bit there, I'm looking after that, I'm gonna make sure that I don't injure myself, but I'm working through it by moving my body.

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Ela Law (she/her): through the gale, through the horrible weather, through the cold, whatever it is. So you're actually building some resilience, wouldn't you say?

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, 100%. And I think that's a really good way of looking at it, but…

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Christine Chessman: And I think when you… when you first start this journey with your, aiding and sort of changing a relationship with your body, I do think sometimes it's good to step away from movement entirely.

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Christine Chessman: Even for a short time, and spend some time journaling, or just trying stuff out, like doing, you know, MoveGB, for example, ClassPass, anything like that that gives you an opportunity to try different things. And it's not about finding what's joyful, necessarily, it's what interests you.

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Christine Chessman: What were you curious about? What would you really like to do? As in, what would you like to… would you like to kind of hold a hands down? Would you like to run a mile? Would you like to dance? Would you like to learn to, you know, find something that sparks your curiosity rather than…

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Christine Chessman: You know, looking at something in terms of, okay, if I run 3 times a week, I can eat more food. So it's just, what interests you?

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: So it's not always going to be joyful. To keep coming, I need to strength train and take care of my mobility. To keep dancing, you need to… do you know what I mean? So there's always…

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Christine Chessman: Bits of structure that we need to add in here and there, once the time is right.

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Ela Law (she/her): I just think at the beginning, you need to take a break from stuff that you have been doing that wasn't serving you.

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Christine Chessman: Might come back to it.

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Christine Chessman: Might not. So that's… I think that's key.

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Christine Chessman: Design this right.

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Ela Law (she/her): And then, similarly, we were talking about this before I hit record.

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Christine Chessman: With intuitive eating, you've got that… once you've kind of gone through the stages, you've got that gentle nutrition that you bring in. It's the same with movement. I really believe in a bit of gentle structure, with lots of flexibility.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah, flexibility is key, isn't it? And yeah, there are so many parallels, because the…

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Ela Law (she/her): intuitive eating, you know, you're not always gonna eat everything that you absolutely love. You're sometimes eating when you are not hungry, because you, you know, you're gonna be very busy later on, or whatever. So it's not a perfect thing, just like exercise and movement won't be a perfect thing. I think…

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Ela Law (she/her): We come into, sort of… we encounter issues when we…

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Ela Law (she/her): Do too much when our bodies actually

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Ela Law (she/her): not wanting to move, they need a rest every now and again, or when we use everything and anything as an excuse not to move, I think we're having these two extremes that

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Ela Law (she/her): People often feel like they're… they're struggling with.

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Christine Chessman: I think if you stop moving, It's harder to move.

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Ela Law (she/her): Mhmitting.

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Christine Chessman: move at all, it's harder to move at all.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: The more… and that's an annoying saying, but if you keep moving, you can keep moving.

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Ela Law (she/her): Hmm.

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Christine Chessman: Don't mean all the time. I love a 3R movie, you know, sitting in the movie, with feet up, all of that. It's not about moving all the time.

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Christine Chessman: Like, every day, have a little movement.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: And that can start so small. And I'm working with a client at the minute who I love. I think this is our second year.

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Christine Chessman: And she's… she's just been, like, she's educated me in this. So she started off by going, she hates movement. She's always found it really punishing. She's had trainers that yelled at her and told her to do 20 burpees and do all that. So it's… and it's always been a bit of misery.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah, it sounds miserable.

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Christine Chessman: So she started then to sort of change her relationship to food.

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Christine Chessman: And really worked on that.

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Christine Chessman: And then wanted to change your relationship to movement, but slowly get back into it. So it's been a really little steps.

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Christine Chessman: We slice the wig for half an hour, and it's bite-sized progression, that's what I say, bite-sized. If it, you know, let's try it on for size, let's try 5, see how you feel. It's that, we're gauging.

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Christine Chessman: But we set that time, and every week she meets me, two sessions a week. Some days she's knackered, so we just do mobility. Some days she's been really strong, so we then build it up. And I think it is…

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Ela Law (she/her): Knowing that every day your energy's different.

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Christine Chessman: plan, but on the day when you wake up and you maybe start moving, you're like, oh, I'm really stiff.

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Christine Chessman: Maybe do much less, maybe do body weight only instead of the weights.

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Ela Law (she/her): So I always think it's…

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Christine Chessman: Checking in with your body.

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Christine Chessman: I'm not overriding if you feel absolutely wiped out.

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Ela Law (she/her): Hmm.

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Christine Chessman: Capacity, not overriding that.

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Ela Law (she/her): Mmm.

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Christine Chessman: I think it's okay to think, like, ugh, I don't want to be bothered.

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Christine Chessman: Anyway…

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Christine Chessman: But if you are wiped out, you're sore, you're just… and you… you really know that you probably should just rest.

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Christine Chessman: That's where the growth is.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: Give yourself that rest.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: And for those people that… sorry, I'm talking a lot.

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Ela Law (she/her): No, go for it.

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Christine Chessman: Which is all really, really interesting.

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Christine Chessman: For those people that struggle to move at all.

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Christine Chessman: then I think it has to start really small.

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Christine Chessman: You know, like, literally 5 minutes of walk around the block, meet your friends, get a coffee, have a short walk somewhere.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yes.

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Christine Chessman: Nice, picturesque, like the seafront or something.

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Christine Chessman: Or go to, like, a really gentle class that you might like, stand at the back. Give yourself

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Christine Chessman: like, just space to work it out, and just little tiny bits, bit by bit by bit. Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: And just give… you know, it's really hard. It's really hard if you're going from a place of…

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Christine Chessman: you see movement as punishment, and you've got association, and you struggle with movement. I completely can understand that completely.

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Ela Law (she/her): Hmm.

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Ela Law (she/her): But it's gonna be so, so beneficial. As you said, if you keep moving, you can keep moving. It's the… it's the first few steps of actually getting back into it, which will probably feel really hard, and you're probably struggling, and it's gonna be painful, because you haven't… you're stiff, and you haven't moved for a long time.

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Ela Law (she/her): But I think the more you do it, the more you enjoy it, and the more you get from it, and you realize the benefit that you're getting from moving.

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Christine Chessman: You know, Ella, I think it's important to find classes and teachers that… that are not like, GET ON THE FLOOR!

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Ela Law (she/her): It's horrible!

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Christine Chessman: You find a friggin' teacher that gives you lots of options and doesn't patronize you.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yep.

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Christine Chessman: like crap if you're not… and doesn't go, this is the hard one, this is the easy version. No, that's patronizing, and crap, everybody's bodies are different.

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Ela Law (she/her): So…

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Christine Chessman: Finding somebody you relate to who's…

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Christine Chessman: you know, that basically just… you don't feel bad when you go to a class. You want to come back feeling, oh, I've managed to do something today, or… do you know what I mean? It's very important that you can relate to and get on with the instructor, and that you don't do a class that just makes you feel like crap.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah, definitely. And also, that's what's going to make it more sustainable, because if you feel good, if you have connection with the person that's either training you or the people in the group, you're much more likely to go back.

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Ela Law (she/her): If you're being shouted at, and you're made to feel crap for not doing 20 burpees, then you're not gonna go back, because

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Ela Law (she/her): why would you want to do that? So, it's… I think it has that secondary benefit of actually finding that

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Ela Law (she/her): enjoyment. That may not happen during the exercise, but the enjoyment is from, as you said, you know, walking somewhere nice, where you can listen to the birds, or see the sea, or, you know, whatever it is, having that connection with other people, going to a place where, you know, you feel safe, and you feel

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Ela Law (she/her): happy, that's a secondary benefit of the actual physical benefit of moving. So, you know, trying to find something that gives you both is ideal, because then it's sustainable, and then it can be verging on joyful movement, right?

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, and it's… do you find… so I find if you… if you grab a friend, so maybe you've got a friend you could work out with, or you could go to the gym with, or you could…

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Christine Chessman: go swimming with, or go to a dance class, so that's really important too, because that'll make it more… give you that tiny bit of accountability at the beginning, just to help get started.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah, yeah, it can help. For me personally, I don't like that.

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Ela Law (she/her): Because I like that I just go and do what I want to do, rather than having… having that, but I can totally see, and I see people at the gym all the time who come in pairs.

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Ela Law (she/her): And they spot each other, and they do stuff together, and they encourage each other, like, let's do another 5 minutes of this, and then we can move on, or, you know, they show each other things that they've learned from other classes. I love that. For me personally, that's not the way I like exercising, but…

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Ela Law (she/her): I think it's because when I move, I want to clear my head, and if I… I like going for a dog walk every now and again with a friend, but generally, that is my time where I don't have to talk to anybody, so I quite like that. I listen to my audiobooks or my podcasts when I exercise, so I prefer that, but I think, you know, everyone is different, but I completely agree with you, having that little bit of accountability to get you started.

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Ela Law (she/her): Especially if you're doing it with someone who's in a similar kind of situation to you, where maybe you haven't done anything for a while, and you just want to motivate each other. I think that's fantastic.

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Christine Chessman: Well, this is… I understand that, Ella, because I like to run on my own. If I'm struggling with life and emotions, I like to go.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: Here in my head.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: So, sometimes I love running with a friend and chatting to them.

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Ela Law (she/her): Hmm.

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Christine Chessman: time, so I'm a bit of both, and I think that's.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: It's whatever works.

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Ela Law (she/her): Definitely.

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Christine Chessman: But what I would say is do not discount 5-minute movement, 15-minute movement, all of that. So I heard from a friend the other day, oh, I'm not doing an R, though, so it doesn't really count, so why even bother? And I'm like, no, I never… I rarely do an R. I mean.

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Christine Chessman: in ours if I actually go to a class.

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Christine Chessman: I don't like Tanonara, it's too much.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah, I agree.

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Christine Chessman: And you don't have to do an R.

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Christine Chessman: you know, don't scrimp on your mobility bit at the beginning. 30, 40 minutes is more than enough. 20, 30 minutes? Fantastic. 15 minutes? It's all brilliant, especially at the beginning. 5 minutes. I would tell all clients, do 5 minutes, 3 times a week.

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Christine Chessman: Get that in your routine, and then build on that, you know?

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah, definitely. I mean, it has to…

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Ela Law (she/her): fit into your life as well, doesn't it? You know, you can't just say, I'm gonna go to the gym 3 times a week for an hour and a half, when you haven't got that hour and a half spare to…

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Ela Law (she/her): to do that in one sitting. You know, break it up into smaller chunks and spread it out over the day if you can. You know, as… to quote a very popular supermarket, every little helps, I think. Every little thing that you do is gonna be…

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Ela Law (she/her): Helpful.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah. Right?

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, and it's… so that doesn't work… I think you also got to bring neurodivergence into the picture.

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Christine Chessman: Because for me, weirdly, I like a plan. Even though I have an ADHD brain, I like a plan. I don't always follow it.

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Ela Law (she/her): having it!

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Christine Chessman: Sometimes I like to mix stuff up, and do… I did a workout from the week before, and then I'm, you know… but I like to know, because decision fatigue is real.

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Christine Chessman: I hate waking up going, okay, which workout am I going to do? Should I do… but maybe I'll do the strength one, but I don't know, because I did strengthen. And then it's like an hour past, and I haven't done a thing.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: I have a trainer who writes me a plan, you know, I tell him my goals, and it's quite a good thing if you can afford it and find somebody.

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Ela Law (she/her): who sort of offers a program, somebody who's experienced with all of that, it's really helpful.

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Christine Chessman: But with built-in flexibility, that's really important.

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Christine Chessman: And I always think that don't… consistency really turns me off. Discipline really turns me off. I don't like my words.

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Ela Law (she/her): Hmm.

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Christine Chessman: Equally, I love the power of showing up.

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Ela Law (she/her): Be persistent about it. Just try.

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Christine Chessman: Keep showing up.

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Ela Law (she/her): Hmm.

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Christine Chessman: to do it all. You can half-ass it. Just keep showing up, things that you have agreed to show up to.

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Christine Chessman: Best of your ability, and it's… you'll really see the difference, not in your body physically, but you'll feel the difference.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: And that's feeling the difference, isn't it?

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah, and that's… that's it, and you can only get to feeling the difference when you let go of all of the,

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Ela Law (she/her): all of the, sort of, the diet mentality, ways of looking at exercise, because you're not feeling, you're just thinking, thinking about it, and excusing, and finding…

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Ela Law (she/her): finding pseudo-permission to eat, and yeah, definitely. Feeling it. And feeling it, and when you feel the difference, that's also what's going to make it sustainable, because then you will want to do it, because it'll make you feel good.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, but this… so we have to talk, before we… before we stop, our lovely listeners know that we… we like a tangent,

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Christine Chessman: It's important to talk about the mental health side of things, the movement for mental health. If I'm struggling with my mental health, I overdo exercise.

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Ela Law (she/her): Oh, right.

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Christine Chessman: I know that, and I know that about myself.

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Ela Law (she/her): Okay.

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Christine Chessman: So… because it just… I need to get out of my head. I need to get out of my head and into my body. I know that at times… actually, sometimes I need to sit with…

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Christine Chessman: what I'm feeling. And that is something that I see an awful lot of exercise for mental health.

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Christine Chessman: You know, it's fantastic, but it is not therapy, and I do think it's almost like pushing down your emotions.

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Ela Law (she/her): Exercise brings you that little bit of relief, because you're channeling it, but…

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Christine Chessman: I don't always think it's the answer.

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Ela Law (she/her): Interesting. Yeah, it's… the interesting thing that you said right at the beginning is that if I just need to get out of my head and into my body, and I think…

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Ela Law (she/her): You can exercise and still be in your head.

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Ela Law (she/her): And I think then you're not actually doing anything, but if you're moving your body, it's a way of… or it can be, it isn't always, but it can be a way of releasing any of that negative stuff that's going on in your head, and gives you endorphins, and makes you feel more able to cope with whatever's

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Ela Law (she/her): Pissing you off, or whatever's… you're struggling with.

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Christine Chessman: your only coping mechanism, because what if you… Yeah. What if you get injured? Yeah. What happens then?

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Ela Law (she/her): Exactly.

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Christine Chessman: You can't keep doing your… you know, if you're just doing it all the time, and it can get to the point where if you're going through a really hard time, you need to exercise more and more and more, and then…

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Ela Law (she/her): Hmm.

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Christine Chessman: What happens when you just overload your body, and you just.

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Ela Law (she/her): Hmm.

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Christine Chessman: what… so it is…

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Christine Chessman: It's brilliant for processing. Believe me, my dad died, I ran every day, and it was the best thing.

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Ela Law (she/her): Hmm.

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Christine Chessman: But… At some point, it's good to have other things in your toolkit.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: And also to try and not just do the hard exercise, try and do the soft exercise, like the gentle yoga, where you're literally lying on the floor, hugging your knees in occasionally, and not just having to go hard all the time.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah, I think when you are doing the gentle stuff, that is often when emotions come up.

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Ela Law (she/her): you know, when you're doing, a hip opener, or stuff like that. That's sometimes when people start spontaneously sobbing in a yoga class. It's less likely to happen when you're doing a full-blown HIIT class, or, like, punching some… something. But yeah, I think it's finding that happy medium between.

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Christine Chessman: Well, this is… so this was the best thing that I've ever heard, is I went to my… I went for boxing lessons after my mum died.

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Ela Law (she/her): That's fine.

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Christine Chessman: And I've been really… don't know what to do with this feeling of box.

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Christine Chessman: And the boxing coach, Christina, is amazing, and I said, I'm just here because I'm really stressed, mum's just died, and I need to box it out.

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Christine Chessman: So I'm coming here rather than therapy.

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Christine Chessman: She was like, we recommend both.

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Ela Law (she/her): I love it!

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Christine Chessman: She's totally right. Obviously, we can't all afford therapy. It's a very privileged position, sadly, to be in if you can afford therapy, but, do you know what I mean? It's not… exercise is certainly great.

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Christine Chessman: In terms of getting out just a different perspective, and just… Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: But it isn't everything.

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Ela Law (she/her): No.

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Ela Law (she/her): No, but it can be an incredibly helpful tool.

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Christine Chessman: It can be…

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: Absolutely. Do you find it good for your stress?

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Ela Law (she/her): Oh, 100%, and I've noticed since I've been moving a bit more again that I feel a lot better in myself.

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Ela Law (she/her): But I need… just like you, I need a bit of flexibility, because my days are not the same from week to week, and also, I,

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Ela Law (she/her): I don't want to do the same thing.

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Ela Law (she/her): week to week. I want to change it up a little bit. So, for me, that's very important. But I 100% feel better. 100% feel better. I also feel…

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Ela Law (she/her): I think, I don't know if I said it on the podcast last week, but I've started doing… one day a week, I'm doing some mobility exercises, and I find them incredibly helpful, because I don't want to be a 65, 70-year-old who can't get up off the floor. I want to be that person who can, you know, just lift herself up. I want to be able to hold a plank, I want to be able to do the things, like going up the stairs without getting out a puff.

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Ela Law (she/her): So, for me, it's a long-term goal of

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Ela Law (she/her): having a well-functioning body for as long as I can, and for… with whatever means I have personally. Obviously, there's all sorts of stuff that can happen that are completely outside of my control, but what I can control and what I can do to make sure that my body functions well.

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Ela Law (she/her): for as long as possible. That's the aim of the game for me, so therefore, you know, I try and sort of mix it up a little bit.

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Christine Chessman: Well, I like that you like flexibility, because I do as well, I'm very into that. I don't like the same every week.

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Ela Law (she/her): No.

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Christine Chessman: I think that's something that it's important.

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Christine Chessman: To sort of think about if you're starting a new routine with movement.

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Ela Law (she/her): Hmm.

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Christine Chessman: Like, if you don't want to be bored.

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Ela Law (she/her): I almost, like, getting curious about what you like, and what works for you, and what… Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: It's such a nice, distance from, oh, which is going to burn the most calories, which is going.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah, yeah.

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Christine Chessman: It's such a break from that, it's such a, like, different.

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Ela Law (she/her): nay.

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Christine Chessman: to think, oh, what would I quite like to do? What did I used to be able to do, and I'd like to try again? Or what have I never done?

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Ela Law (she/her): Or, as you're saying with the mobility, wouldn't it be brilliant if I could easily get up off the floor?

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Christine Chessman: Wouldn't it be brilliant if I could… you know what I mean? It's stuff like that. It's like, what… what interests me? What… what's important to me? What are my values? What… you know, it's thinking like that, and noting it down, rather than…

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Christine Chessman: okay, what's gonna burn calories? What's gonna, you know, be the most punishing workout? It's like…

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: The difference of those two worlds is crazy, and it's a wonderful thing.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: This is joyful. I don't like the movement itself, but it is lovely thinking about, wow, what would I actually like to do, rather than, I need to do this, I need to do this, otherwise I'm not good enough, I'm not worthy, I'm not…

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah. I mean, it's like… Yeah. That's lovely, when you…

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Christine Chessman: C, you've got towards this side, and further away from that side, you know? It doesn't happen overnight, but it is a… it's worth sticking with it, because it is lovely when it does.

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Ela Law (she/her): It does, yeah, absolutely. So, to, to sum up, so we, we had…

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Ela Law (she/her): Red flags, when you're… when you're overdoing it, red flags are when you're cancelling things that you should be… or you wanted to go to, like not seeing friends, and…

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Ela Law (she/her): Red flag is when the only reason you choose exercise is to make up for what you ate, those kind of things.

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Christine Chessman: And when you face sore, when you're.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yep.

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Christine Chessman: Expired all the time, and just…

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Ela Law (she/her): Energy, and…

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Christine Chessman: You're doing too much.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yeah. And then we've got… we talked about…

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Ela Law (she/her): That exercise doesn't have to be joyful, but you can get any sort of secondary benefits, not just the physical primary benefits that you're getting from it, but the secondary benefits, which is community, building strength, building mobility, going somewhere nice, and that is part of the joy aspect of it, right?

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Ela Law (she/her): And then we also talked about, if you haven't moved at all for a long time, take it very, very slow, and understand that it can be really hard, but it will build resilience, and it will help you move more the more you move.

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Christine Chessman: Yes, you're amazing at that.

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Ela Law (she/her): Yes!

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Christine Chessman: If you haven't moved for a long time, start with, like, a slow-running group.

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Ela Law (she/her): Right.

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Christine Chessman: really small bit of movement. Don't try and do 3 times a week at this. Don't fall for the fitness, like, you know, packages out there. Just take it really small.

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Ela Law (she/her): And make it fit into your life, right?

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Christine Chessman: fit into your life for a few weeks, and if you're like, oh boy, I've got this now, then add something else. Just… just, yeah. But well done, I'm really impressed with that.

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Ela Law (she/her): Summary, right?

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Christine Chessman: And thank you all for listening, we appreciate you so much. I loved that conversation, and we really hope you did as well, and we will see you next time.

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Ela Law (she/her): See ya! Bye!