What If We Stopped Fighting Ageing?

I recently turned 50 and Ela is hot on my tail, and as such we are thinking more and more about what it means to embrace our bodies as they inevitably change.* 

We are swimming in a sea of diet culture which is compounded by anti-aging culture once we hit upwards of 35.  How do we reconcile our fears about our bodies changing, when they are now visibly aging?  

What are our options if we want to reject botox, fillers and cosmetic procedures.  Are we destined to become invisible and lose our voice in society?  What does it mean for us to reject anti-aging culture and what are the positives about hitting midlife and finally standing in our power!  

Key Takeaways

•  Midlife can make you question how much of your life has been shaped by worrying about your appearance. 
•  Strength training can change the focus from how your body looks, to what it can actually do. 
•  Amongst the gratitude, there’s grief in ageing, and that's ok.
•  Many women were taught that being smaller, quieter, and less noticeable was somehow safer. 
•  Muscle, balance, and mobility matter a lot more in daily life than looking youthful. 
•  Getting older can bring a kind of relief from constantly thinking about how you look. 
•  A strong body as we age gives you options, independence, and confidence. 
•  Some of the hardest parts of ageing come from how women are treated, not ageing itself. 
•  Midlife can be the first time some women start asking themselves what they actually want. 
•  You don’t have to pretend ageing feels amazing in order to reject anti-ageing culture. 

*(We also have the wonderful  Deb Benfield, author of Unapologetic Aging on to chat in a couple of weeks time so this topic is very much on our minds.)

Transcript

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Christine Chessman: Welcome, everybody! Ella and I were chatting about what are we going to talk about this week on the podcast? And we thought, because we're having the wonderful Deb Benfield on in a couple of weeks' time, author of Unapologetic Aging, go check her out, she's fantastic. Got her book here. Yeah, we thought we'd talk about aging, and…

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Christine Chessman: You know, if you have had body image issues your whole life, or disordered eating, or disordered exercise patterns, what the hell happens now when your body starts visibly changing? And we don't have the collagen and all that stuff that we just so easily had and didn't appreciate?

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: And also, where do we sit in terms of fillers, you know, facelifts, Botox?

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Christine Chessman: all of that stuff, you know, that is in our inboxes constantly about… and surrounds us, really, because a lot of our friends are kind of having procedures done. So it's… I find it's a really big topic to chat about, so let's break it down, Ella!

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Ela Law: Let's do it, definitely. Yeah, it's a funny one, isn't it? Because it affects literally everybody.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Ela Law: We're all doing it, all aging, right? Yeah, yeah. And you're right, it's such a massive topic, because we can come at it from so many different angles. So where would you like to start?

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Christine Chessman: Well, it's… I ask you personally, how do you feel about it?

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Ela Law: About aging…

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Christine Chessman: Hmm.

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Ela Law: That's a really good question. I think, in general, if I think about it, and I want to give a really pretty answer, I would say it's a privilege.

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Ela Law: Because not everyone gets to get older.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, yeah.

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Ela Law: And, you know, we all probably know somebody who passed away way too young, and… yeah, so in that sense, we're bloody lucky that we are able to experience aging. And also, I think when I was younger, I was more scared of it.

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Ela Law: Because I was thinking… interestingly, I was more scared of it because I thought, oh, well, life's done then. You know, once you hit 50, bye-bye. And now I am almost 50, I feel like… actually, no, I feel like I'm kind of in the middle.

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Ela Law: Yeah. Nowhere near done.

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Ela Law: It feels a little bit like…

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Ela Law: time is getting shorter, and there's still quite a lot that I want to do, so in a way, I feel like I'm a little bit more efficient with

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Ela Law: what I do with my life, whereas when you're in your 20s, you think, oh god, that's, like, miles away.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Ela Law: years and years and years, so you can bum about a little bit, and I don't want to say waste time, but I feel like I probably did waste time on things that maybe aren't as important, and now I feel like, actually, no, I don't have infinite amount of time, so I want to really do stuff that…

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Ela Law: Make me…

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Ela Law: stay fit and well for longer, but also that give me amazing experiences. Does that make sense? Absolutely. That's the sort of… that's the sort of prettily packaged…

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Ela Law: So…

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, it's… I mean, I… that… I resonate with all of that. Do you?

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Ela Law: Yeah, how do you feel about it?

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Christine Chessman: That is a pretty answer, isn't it, Your Honor?

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Ela Law: Yeah, of course.

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Christine Chessman: privilege, and it is… When you, you know, when you sit with somebody as they're dying.

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Ela Law: You do.

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Christine Chessman: And they go, none of this matters.

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Ela Law: I know.

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Christine Chessman: Fair.

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Ela Law: Yep.

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Christine Chessman: You know, all that matters is who you are, and, you know, being kind to people. But…

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Christine Chessman: That's very easy to sew.

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Ela Law: Exactly.

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Christine Chessman: And if you have your whole life battled your body, and been at war with your body.

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Christine Chessman: it is very hard to go, oh, now I have to accept crow's feet, sagging everything.

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Ela Law: Correct me.

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Christine Chessman: skin, you know, it is… it is not an easy thing to do. There's parts of it that, you know, there's liberation in it, for sure, because it's almost like, well, it's not about being invisible. I don't think women are invisible over 50. I do not buy into that at all.

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Ela Law: I think maybe it used to be more like that, but I think nowadays, definitely not anymore.

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Christine Chessman: People are taking up more space over 50, as they frigging should. Anyway, but I don't buy into that. I don't think I'm invisible all of a sudden. I don't… there's a bit of me doesn't quite worry about being attractive, or about.

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Christine Chessman: the male gaze as I used to worry. And I don't know why I worried.

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Christine Chessman: I don't know why I wanted to be attractive. That was always a thing for me. I wanted to be seen as attractive.

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Ela Law: It's…

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Christine Chessman: I think I was, and I needed that validation, and that… and I don't know why, because…

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Christine Chessman: It's not one of my values, so it was always a bit, kind of.

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Ela Law: Hmm.

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Christine Chessman: Hmm, what is that about?

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Ela Law: I feel like you were being pushed into it, because that's just what was expected of women in general, or…

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Christine Chessman: I think it's because you attach… I think for many years, I've attached worthiness to how I'm perceived.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: Which is not how it should be, or… it's not… and it's not how I perceive other people in any way, shape, or form, so I'm not sure why I…

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Christine Chessman: Just me, it had to be different. But it is, it's… I do…

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Christine Chessman: There's a bit of me, it's almost like it… because you're aging, it's almost that inevitability of it. It's quite freeing?

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Christine Chessman: Because it is, like, every… this is happening to everybody, and you could go get your Botox and your fillers and your… but generally, you still look your age…

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Christine Chessman: But with fillers and Botox. So, you know, I think it was on, Stephanie and Michelle's podcast, Life After Diets, with Sarah Dosange, both of them have been on the podcast, and they were sort of saying, I've never met a 50-year-old woman that I thought was 20.

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Christine Chessman: Do you know what I mean? Because you don't… you just don't. You can try and empty-age all your life and all you want, but you're not fooling anybody. No.

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Ela Law: Definitely. No, you're so right! You're so right. I'm interested in this whole,

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Ela Law: and I know you're not buying into it, and I'm not either, because I think things have changed, but this invisibility of women over, say, 45, 50, and I'm wondering whether…

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Ela Law: It used to be maybe more, sort of, generic, because you were… you had basically fulfilled your purpose of potentially.

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Christine Chessman: Oh, yeah.

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Ela Law: bearing children.

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Christine Chessman: Caring children.

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Ela Law: And then, you know, off you go. You know, people… women didn't used to have careers as much as nowadays. They were literally there to be housewife and mother, and once the children had left the home, you know, what's the purpose then? That sort of thing. I know I'm stereotyping massively.

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Ela Law: So, in a way, you become invisible because there's just, like, not as much use for you anymore. Nowadays, that has changed, and rightly so, but I'm wondering whether we still attach a little bit of that invisibility, because I can still hear… I still hear that narrative nowadays, whether we attach that to what you said, the male gaze.

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Ela Law: that it's all about how we're being perceived, and still sort of sticks with quite a lot of people. And as you said, once you kind of let go of that, it's really freeing, because your purpose is different. It's not about being attractive to the opposite sex. Does that make sense?

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Christine Chessman: But it's also really… there's… I totally agree. I totally, sort of, historically, obviously, it's like, women bear the children and all that. But in certain cultures, the matriarchs of society are the people, the oracles, they're the people.

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Ela Law: Oh my god.

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Christine Chessman: You know, they're respected, they are, you know, looked to as…

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Ela Law: Hmm.

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Christine Chessman: wise people, you know what I mean? It's… in this society, it is not the case.

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Christine Chessman: And I think that's really sad. Like, people with the most life experience and the most to offer us, we're like, oh no. I really hate that.

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Ela Law: No.

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Christine Chessman: And I certainly… and we've talked about this before, I can't stand obedience.

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Christine Chessman: And it is that there's a bit… so a bit of me will fight, and to me, being obedient, and it is just… this is my opinion. Me being obedient would be doing the Botox and the fillers and the…

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Christine Chessman: So I kinda… I'm… at this point, I'm saying I'm gonna refuse it.

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Christine Chessman: Because I don't want to be obedient. I'm still dyeing my hair, so I am a bit of, you know…

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Christine Chessman: Hypocrite here.

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Christine Chessman: But, I don't want to do anything… artificial.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: To myself, other than that.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: But, you know, check back in a few years. I'm not gonna judge anybody for it, because you just… you know, you've got to do what works for you. You've got to do what works for you, but it's… to me, it's also a bit of a, women are invisible over 50. It's a marketing ploy!

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Ela Law: Mmm!

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Christine Chessman: Here's how not to be invisible. Buy this, by this for your crow's feet, by this…

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Ela Law: Okay.

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Christine Chessman: plump up your cheeks, buy this product, and the amount of bloody anti-aging products that I'm getting sold all over my email and all of my social media really angers me.

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Christine Chessman: So it's this anti-aging is everywhere, as if aging is this awful thing that we've all got to try and resist and…

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: Often, it's not okay to edge.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: And, you know, there's certain people in the public eye, like Kate Winslet, who are standing up against that. Love it. And obviously, she's got a huge amount of privilege.

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Christine Chessman: But she also has a lot to say, and she has a big platform, and I appreciate what she says so much.

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Ela Law: Yeah, brilliant. Yeah, she's… she's awesome. Yeah, I agree with you. I think it is… a lot of it is marketing. A lot of it is, you know, why do we need to look younger? Is it because we have to be competing with the younger women, dare I say it?

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Ela Law: For… attention?

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Ela Law: Do we have to appear younger so that we get a job?

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Ela Law: I don't know, I mean, I'm just… I'm just trying to think is why… what is the purpose of us looking young, or trying to make ourselves look younger? What's the purpose of having that?

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Ela Law: What do you think? What's the purpose of it?

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Christine Chessman: Well, we're all just… we're constantly, from the minute we're kind of teenagers, we're being sold stuff to fix ourselves.

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Christine Chessman: So aging is seen as something else to fix.

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Ela Law: Something to fix, you know.

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Christine Chessman: You've got.

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Ela Law: To what purpose? What's the aim of fixing that? Aging in particular?

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Christine Chessman: That we look as youthful as possible.

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Ela Law: I'm wide.

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Christine Chessman: is…

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Ela Law: Sorry.

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Christine Chessman: I'm just…

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Ela Law: You know, I'm asking myself these questions. I've got a sort of a vague idea of what it is, and I think it all goes back to sort of patriarchal, kind of.

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Christine Chessman: If you're talking about privilege…

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Ela Law: Hmm.

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Christine Chessman: There's a lot of privilege that comes with you, as well as straight-sized body, as well as being a white woman. There's a lot of privilege.

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Christine Chessman: Do you know what I mean? A ton. Yeah.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: You know, there is, I think. Yeah, totally. Yeah. You know, we're all in search of that youth, and I think it needs to be…

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Christine Chessman: turned on its head a bit, and I'm just hoping at some point, like, people like Deb Benfaint, hopefully, who are coming on, and there's a woman called Ashton Applewhite, who's fantastic, and this chair rocks, I think, her handle, and she's amazing, and again.

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Christine Chessman: why… why are we just going, oh, we're old now? The amount of people that I've got coming up to me, oh, I'm old, look at my crow's feet, oh, I don't want this, this is all saggy, and they're just talking themselves down all the time, it's what we've done our whole lives.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: At some point, and that is one thing about aging that's good, I'm getting so sick of that now, hearing my own self criticize myself.

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Christine Chessman: I'm getting angry about it.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: So, and it makes me sort of… not buy into it.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: Do you know what I mean?

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Ela Law: it slips off the tongue of it way too easily, oh, I'm so old, or oh, I just looked at the mirror, and oh, God. It's that… it's such a… it's…

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Ela Law: did we talk about normative discontent in a previous episode? It's when it's normalized that we're unhappy with whatever it is, and I feel like there's a huge amount of normative discontent when it comes…

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Ela Law: It's a cool… it's a cool term. I hadn't… I only came across it about maybe a year ago, and I really love it. I think I… I think I wrote a blog about it. That's why. It just came back to me, because we are so… we normalize being unhappy with how we look so much, don't we? Absolutely. And it's almost like if you are…

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Ela Law: If you're not on that treadmill of, like, bashing your body, bashing how you look, then…

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Ela Law: I don't know, are you seen as conceited? Are you seen as a little bit arrogant? Are you seen as a bit weird? Why are you happy with your body when everyone else isn't? Do you see what I mean? It's almost like it's not normal to say, actually, I'm alright.

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Christine Chessman: But may… and maybe we don't have to be happy.

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Ela Law: Mmm.

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Christine Chessman: Maybe we can do the neutrality thing. I did a post about this the other day, but I love this normative discontent.

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Ela Law: It's cool, isn't it?

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, I don't think… so I… more and more, I always wanted to be happy with my body.

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Christine Chessman: And then I realized that your body's changing constantly.

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Christine Chessman: You've kind of just got to… and you're not always going to be really happy.

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Ela Law: No.

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Christine Chessman: Thanks.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: But maybe being… sort of being a little bit unhappy and then going, oh well, what are you gonna do, and walking away, and doing something else. It's not… it's not letting your feelings about your body take up any space in your head, or take.

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Ela Law: Yep.

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Christine Chessman: Lot less space.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: Because it's… it's not realistic to just embrace every single bit of aging and not have any grief there.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: Or how the swimsuit used to fit you, or how…

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Christine Chessman: Do you know what I mean? It is normal to not have to, like, pull in your eyelid up to do your eyeliner.

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Ela Law: You know what I mean? Did you watch me this morning?

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Christine Chessman: Pull the eye back.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Ela Law: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know.

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Christine Chessman: And buying makeup that doesn't sit in your creases.

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Ela Law: Freakin'.

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Christine Chessman: Oh, no.

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Ela Law: Oh, there's a challenge!

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Christine Chessman: mean? And it is, like, covering the greys and doing all that. It is… it's normal to have a bit of grief, so I think, for me, I'm focusing on that neutrality lens.

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Ela Law: Hmm.

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Christine Chessman: So, if I do catch a glimpse of myself, and I'm like, oh, then I go…

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Christine Chessman: Oh well, what are you gonna do? And move on, rather than spending the whole day buying anti-aging creams and collagen supplements and… No. Because that is not gonna help your state of mind, and it's actually gonna do nothing for your body.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: And I know I see myself in a way that is hypercritical.

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Christine Chessman: something that has been decades and decades that I'm trying to unlearn, but it's not…

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Ela Law: Hmm…

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Christine Chessman: So I now know… okay, hold on, take a step back.

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Ela Law: Hmm.

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Christine Chessman: Doesn't always work, but it certainly helps.

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Ela Law: Mmm.

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Christine Chessman: What about you? Do you… how do you see yourself? Do you see yourself as a positive gaze?

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Ela Law: I… I would say I'm sort of more in the neutrality, kind of.

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Christine Chessman: Neutality, yeah.

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Ela Law: swimming around there, I don't…

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Ela Law: Yeah, I don't… I don't feel particularly bad about aging and how I look, but I…

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Ela Law: also don't feel particularly, oh my god, I'm amazing. So I'm sort of… I'm quite happy being in the neutrality pond, because that feels less up and down, and also it means that I'm less focused on it.

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Ela Law: as a, as a concept. So, yeah, I… I'd, I'd say…

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Ela Law: I'd say I'm okay, and I like what you said about you don't have to be happy. It's… it's… I feel… it's almost like being neutral and accepting of this is just what it is, is gonna…

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Ela Law: give you time and energy to focus on things that are actually really important, like, objectively important, if that makes sense. And I also like what he said about grief, because I feel like

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Ela Law: The grief can have different origins, so it could be that you're grieving for the…

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Ela Law: attention that you used to get when you were younger, and, you know, for intents and purposes, possibly more attractive to whoever was looking at you, or you felt more confident, or whatever it is, so maybe there's a bit of grief for… for the, sort of.

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Ela Law: objectified you, but then there could also be some grief about…

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Ela Law: Well, I am getting older, and part of my life is done.

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Ela Law: Right? I have fewer years left.

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Ela Law: And I feel like, if anything, then that is… that is a grief that is…

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Ela Law: No, I can't say that. I can't say that is a deeper grief. I think it's both. I really do think in nowadays society, I think we have to juggle both of those bits of grief. I don't know, do you feel like stronger…

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Ela Law: That one of the types of grief is stronger for you than the other, or do you feel like it's kind of…

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Ela Law: An equal.

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Christine Chessman: I mean, it should be, shouldn't it? Because it should be…

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Ela Law: Yes, that's why I almost just said the grief for the time that you haven't got left, or that you have already spent, and grieving for that time.

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Ela Law: is more important, but then, is it? Because I don't want to dismiss that there is real grief for us losing looks, losing…

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Christine Chessman: But that… I think, maybe we just… if we can somehow not let that take over.

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Ela Law: Mmm.

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Christine Chessman: life's purpose and experience. Of course, it is important to a degree, especially if it's been something you have struggled with your.

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Christine Chessman: But it's trying to think, but if you put that in perspective with family members getting ill and dying, or kids graduating, or things happening in your life which are actually… of huge significance and importance, you know, it's…

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Christine Chessman: I think that helps in a way, but… but yeah, but equally, I don't like the idea of going, oh, I'm 50 now, I've got… I hardly have any time left.

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Ela Law: Oh, no.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah, I don't think that's…

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Christine Chessman: a positive way to look at it. I don't think that's helpful, because you could have got hit by a car when you were 20. I got hit by a car when I was 11 and looked

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Christine Chessman: But, you know, I…

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Christine Chessman: We don't have… none of us, there's no guarantees, so really, you should always live your life like you've only got a few years left, because nobody.

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Ela Law: Yeah, or a day.

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Christine Chessman: And I… I don't like that, because that puts pressure on me. It's like, I can't just sit and watch crappy Netflix, because that's wasting two hours of my life. I should be out climbing a mountain or something.

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Ela Law: Yeah, but then you're putting too much pressure on you, right?

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Christine Chessman: I mean, I don't… so I don't…

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: I don't like thinking.

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Ela Law: No.

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Christine Chessman: Huh.

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Ela Law: No, no, no, no, no, and I meant with the grief, is that exactly what you said earlier, it's like learning to, oh, okay, that… it comes up, just like, you know, that grief for our looks comes up.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Ela Law: And we just need to say, oh, okay, there it is, and yes.

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Ela Law: It's sad, but also…

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Christine Chessman: And maybe…

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Ela Law: To be taking over our… Brain.

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Christine Chessman: But also, maybe we friggin' put more diverse people in our feeds. Maybe we put people, older people in our feeds, older women.

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Ela Law: Oh, yeah.

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Christine Chessman: beautiful women in our feeds, because it doesn't… I think you can be as attractive in your 80s as you are. It's to do with societal perception.

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Ela Law: But I don't know.

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Christine Chessman: What we're bombarded with, these images of thin, blonde, white people who are

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Christine Chessman: So that's what we think is attractive.

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Christine Chessman: Because that's all we see. Do you know what I mean? Love lines and glow. You know, whereas women are seen to be, oh, you're over this. Men! Men can be friggin' attractive into their… well into their 80s, and, you know, that's all fine. Oh, Harrison Ford, let's all swoon, he's 80.

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Christine Chessman: And that is just a… that's not real. That doesn't mean a woman of the same age can't be very attractive. That is just the societal conditioning, isn't it?

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: listening.

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Ela Law: Yeah, definitely. I love, I love seeing, older women in particular on…

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Ela Law: on Instagram at the moment, and the kind of shit they get up to is amazing. It's not like the end of the… your life doesn't mean when you're 50, you can't do anything anymore. But when you said about these people that we're bombarded with, and it's, like, maybe unknown people or not very famous people, but it's also famous people, and there was something… there was an article about…

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Ela Law: Bradley Cooper, and his facelifts, and the stuff that he's done to his face, and they were talking about, oh my god, he's unrecognizable, and why did he feel like he had to do it? And I'm like.

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Ela Law: what are you talking about? Women do that all the time, and you think, oh my god, she looks amazing, and she's had that done and that done, but isn't it amazing? And they… literally, the few, the handful of Hollywood males that are, like, really very well known, they do something, and it's like, oh my god, why did he feel the need.

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Christine Chessman: I know, it's like a thing.

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Ela Law: off.

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Christine Chessman: I think Ryan Gosling as well, and everybody's like, why did he do anything to this?

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Ela Law: What did… I mean…

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Ela Law: like, look at literally every single A-lister Hollywood star. They've all had stuff done to it, maybe…

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Christine Chessman: But it is…

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Ela Law: The other…

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Christine Chessman: Oh, wow!

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Ela Law: Well, that haven't.

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Christine Chessman: You know, it is this, wow, she looks amazing.

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Ela Law: No.

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Christine Chessman: her age, she looks much younger. And I got told that, and it is just this…

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Christine Chessman: enormous of things. I got told by a few people, oh, you don't look 50, oh, you're gonna be 50, that's it, oh, you… and I… I was a bit annoyed. And in previous years, I would have been like, oh my goodness, that's amazing. But now I was like.

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Christine Chessman: That is just so ingrained in us, it's so, like, we think that's a compliment. It's like, have you lost weight?

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Ela Law: Exactly.

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Christine Chessman: oh, you don't look your age. And I did a post that I want to be strong at 50, not 450. I don't want 450. I want to be strong at 50.

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Ela Law: I like that.

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Christine Chessman: Because I don't buy into that, do you know what I mean? I don't… Yeah, it just upsets me.

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Ela Law: No, absolutely, 100%, 100%. I think it's just…

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Ela Law: But as you said, it's this narrative, isn't it? It's like, we've been… it's so ingrained in us that it comes out before we even have a chance to think about it, because it's so normalized.

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Christine Chessman: I mean, maybe it does… does it change how you… because obviously we're a nutritionists and.

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Ela Law: Mmm.

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Christine Chessman: change how you eat? Do you take more care of making sure you get all the nutrients now that you're nearly 50?

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Ela Law: No, I don't need to, because you don't need to eat radically different when you turn the 50 corner. Again, marketing.

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Ela Law: You know, people want to sell you extra protein, they want to sell you collagen, they want to tell you, oh, you're not getting enough of this, that, and the other. Oh, I've got the solution, I've got powder that you mix in your Greek yogurt, which you absolutely have to eat, because you have to eat more protein, and yes, maybe our protein requirements go up a little bit.

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Ela Law: And yes, maybe, you know, having a multivitamin supplement might be quite helpful, but then I would say that's the same for all age groups. I mean, it's just that it's all marketing, isn't it? I don't need to…

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Ela Law: like, when we spoke to Elizabeth Davies last week, we don't need to… only because we're women, we don't need to exercise differently. What we may want to do is we might want to just see what our bodies… how far we can push our bodies, what can we do with our bodies, what…

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Ela Law: brings us joy. And I would say it's the same with food. Only because you're 50 doesn't mean you have to stop eating cake now.

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Christine Chessman: And, you know, I think, obviously, the strength training, strength training, strength, you have to strength train now that you're 50. I would say you have to strength train from your 20, from your start exercising. I've always thought that as a runner.

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: Boss training has always been a real priority for me.

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Ela Law: Hmm.

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Christine Chessman: But there is no such thing as a menopause fitness coach. Just… just go to a good fitness coach, because they're gonna take you for you, and…

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Ela Law: Exactly.

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Christine Chessman: Both for your health history, and what's going on with you, and what you need, and how you want to work out, and what works.

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Ela Law: That's it.

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Christine Chessman: So it's not about, oh, you're menopausal, you have to work out in this very specific way, because then we get into that all-or-nothing thinking.

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Ela Law: Definitely.

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Christine Chessman: But I do think that I want to edge, I do want to edge well in terms of movement.

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Ela Law: Mmm.

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Christine Chessman: That is something that I do feel quite strongly about.

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Christine Chessman: And I think… so that's interesting, because I do think about aging in terms of movement, because obviously, I have slightly more aches than I used to have. I have to mobilize more than I used to, which is…

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Christine Chessman: You know what I mean? I don't…

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Christine Chessman: And I still… I can still do all the things, but I just have to prioritize

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Christine Chessman: a little bit more certain, taking care of joints and all of that kind of stuff. So that is something that I would…

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Christine Chessman: say, and that's not me, that's not a sales technique or a gimmick, it's just something that I think passionately about, that I want women to be able to do all the things that they love for as long as possible.

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Ela Law: Yeah, yeah, and I'm not saying don't do, like, exactly the same as you did 40 years ago. I'm just saying you don't have to go radical, you just adapt. As you're getting older, you might notice that certain foods don't agree with you the way they used to. I know, for example, drinking alcohol, I literally don't sleep the night after, and I used to be dead to the world.

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Ela Law: I know that if I eat certain things in the evening, I get incredibly bloated, but that… that happens, and you adapt. That doesn't mean I have to have a radically different diet, and like you, with the aches and the kind of being a little bit more stiff, that's just normal, isn't it? Our bodies are aging, so if you have an older car, it will have a bit of rust, and it will just maybe need a little bit of a push-up.

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Ela Law: Every now and again. Apologies to anyone who's offended by my analogy, but you know what I mean, you do have to adapt, but it doesn't mean that you have to go completely nuts.

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Ela Law: for specialized programs when you can continue doing what you're doing, and just adapt, and see what feels good.

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Christine Chessman: And, you know, and I would urge anybody out there who's listening, if you… the thing about training, not for looks, is that it brings you so much freedom.

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Christine Chessman: Because you can train in any way that you want to train, and you can… you don't have to go, I better do…

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Christine Chessman: another session of cardio, because I can't do more strength, because I don't want to… and I have to eat this much protein here, here, and here. No! No, it is just… it is… it takes everything out of it. It takes the joy out of it, it takes out… and goals! If you set actual goals that you want to accomplish, how amazing would it be to accomplish those goals, which are non-aesthetic goals?

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Christine Chessman: But you're actually just saying what your body can do, and…

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Christine Chessman: And getting that new appreciation for your body, so…

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Ela Law: Yeah.

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Christine Chessman: I don't, I don't know if we've, if we've just talked around in circles.

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Ela Law: I explored it.

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Ela Law: Well, that would be a new thing for us.

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Christine Chessman: That's a new thing, we never do that. So you're good at the nutshells.

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Ela Law: Oh, God, no, don't nutshell me now. In a nutshell, I think this is not the end of this topic, because.

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Christine Chessman: I know.

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Ela Law: We've got some amazing people coming up. We have already talked about aging and how to train for our old lady bodies, all of that kind of stuff. That's a conversation that I think we will continue.

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Christine Chessman: Yeah.

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Ela Law: I don't really have a nutshell, other than that we…

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Ela Law: I, you know, I feel very strongly that we need to step away from this narrative of, we're past it, we're old, we can't do things anymore, and move towards… yes, we're older, yes, we might have to adapt a few things, but, you know, life isn't over only because we turn a certain

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Ela Law: 50 or 60 or whatever.

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Christine Chessman: And I think we've… we've not… we've kind of touched on it, but we haven't really gone into it, that we're…

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Christine Chessman: The whole thing about the work that we do is about the intuitive part, so it's how do you feel?

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Christine Chessman: How do you feel when you move? How do you feel in your life? How do you feel? It's not about how you look on the… do you know what I mean? It's that moving body versus the objectified body. If I get stressed about how I look, I get into my body and move, or I sit and I do a nervous system regulation practice, or I do something, or go for a walk, or I punch something, or I get into my body and see what I need.

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Christine Chessman: Do you know what I mean? That can make a massive difference. Same with food, it's like, how is this making me feel?

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Christine Chessman: Rather than… do you know what I mean? It is that different gaze which can make all the difference to… to the aging process and how you age, can't it?

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Ela Law: Definitely. And also, this is something you can do at any age. We're not menopause specialists, we're not aging specialists, we are intuitive movement and intuitive eating

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Ela Law: Coaches, counsellors, trainers. And that goes for anybody who's listening, at any age, can learn to tap in.

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Ela Law: It doesn't… it's not… this is not a program for old people, this is a program for everybody. It's just about, you know, how do we maybe find a little bit more of a peaceful relationship with aging? Acknowledge that, yes, we can feel that grief, because it is real, and we're not saying it's not, and we're not saying we never feel it, but what do you do with it, and how do you move on from it? And I think…

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Ela Law: Maybe that's my nutshell. There you go. Ta-da.

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Christine Chessman: That's a very good nutshell. I have to say, the kids really bring you back down to earth, because I remember this was a couple of years ago, but I was sort of… I was saying, I'm not old, you know, I was in that denial phase.

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Christine Chessman: And I think Mia was like, was she 13 at the time? So she was like, Mum, I am. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13. You are. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12…

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Christine Chessman: 13, 45, 6, 17, 9, 20, took a break.

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Christine Chessman: 21, 20… I was just not… she just had to keep taking bricks, because I…

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Ela Law: Oh my god!

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Christine Chessman: I laughed so much, because I was like, fair enough, there's not… what can I say?

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Ela Law: Do you… no comeback from that? Fair?

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Christine Chessman: And it's funny to see yourself in the eyes of your kids, because they think you're ancient.

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Ela Law: Oh, 100%, I hear that all the time.

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Christine Chessman: It's quite… it's quite grinding in some ways, isn't it?

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Ela Law: It really is, but again, it's perception, isn't it? Some of my kids' friends think that I'm quite a young mum, and then my daughter says, oh god, you're so old. You know, it's like, it's perception, isn't it? And it's like, yeah, I don't know. And it's all relative, you know, compared to a 92-year-old.

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Ela Law: We are quite young, compared to a third… No, at all.

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Christine Chessman: Still got it.

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Ela Law: It's the relativity of it.

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Christine Chessman: So yeah, if you enjoyed today's episode, please follow, subscribe, and share with your friends, we would appreciate it so, so much. And it's been lovely to have you here with us, and we will see you next time. Lots of love, everybody.

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Ela Law: Bye!

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Christine Chessman: Bye!