Awakening Your Playful Side, with Jamie Carbaugh aka @fitragamuffin

This conversation was different for me.  It challenged me and was confronting.

Maybe I take movement too seriously and need to find that playful element once more.....

Jamie Carbaugh (aka fitragamuffin) is a non-diet Virtual Personal Trainer and Group Fitness Instructor. She guides folks to learn to enjoy regular movement by shifting their view of what traditional exercise ‘should’ look like.

Her message of  ‘movement for more’ celebrates all the reasons to exercise beyond the scale. She currently resides in Germany and is a mother and a military spouse.

We chat about rediscovering our playful side and not just finding the joy but the silliness, the cameraderie and allowing movement to be what it is and not having to count.

What if our metrics were if we were feeling better, had more energy or were able to sleep better.  What if just managing to enjoy movement after years of using exercise as punishment was classed as 'progression'?

Jamie asks the questions that challenge the current fitness culture rhetoric and her passion for folks finding play and fun is so infectious.

If you'd like to find out more about Jamie and her amazing Movement Channel, click here.
Or drop her a direct message or follow her on instagram or facebook.

Please reach out if you would like some support with your relationship to food OR movement. Ela currently has limited spaces for Intuitive Eating coaching and if you'd like to reconnect with movement, contact Christine.

AND if you enjoyed this episode, please share and follow the 'Find Your Strong podcast' and if you have time, write us a short review. It would honestly mean the world. Love to you all, Ela & Christine x

Chapters

• 1:02 Introduction to Jamie.
• 4:35 How Zumba drew Jamie to the Non-diet space
• 7:19 The true before and afters
• 10:45 Untangling movement and weight loss
• 13:25 Jamie's body story
• 16:23 The problem with zumba
• 20:34 How can we discover our playful sides
• 25:14 Our childhood memories of movement
• 29:15 The joy of dance
• 32:41 Using alternative metrics for movement
• 34:49 The joy we experience as trainers when clients find the joy
• 40:46 How to work with Jamie

Transcript

1
00:00:02.180 --> 00:00:26.849
Christine Chessman: So welcome, Jamie how are you? I am doing well, I was so excited to be here. So we we were chatting about kids right before this. So I have this a big smile. No, I'm a bit chatty, as you've already find. Generally I talked to people from all over the place. But you are currently in Germany. Isn't that right?

2
00:00:26.850 --> 00:00:51.589
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): Yes, yes, I am originally from the United States of America, and then I am currently living in Germany. My husband serves in the in the military. So we are here right now for the yeah, for the time being. So it's lovely. I love it. Yeah, we were talking earlier. I weirdly speak German quite fluently, strangely. People always get really shocked at that.

3
00:00:52.090 --> 00:00:55.140
Christine Chessman: And I mean, why did you speak German? Why.

4
00:00:55.190 --> 00:01:11.130
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): I'm

5
00:01:11.530 --> 00:01:26.699
Christine Chessman: you can hear the distinctive words, so that made it easier for me. But anyway, I digress to me. And so the reason I'm really excited to talk to you today is you're a non diet trainer.

6
00:01:26.750 --> 00:01:47.529
Christine Chessman: which I also describe myself as a non diac trainer. And I always wanna know people's stories. I wanna know how you find the non diet space? Because it is, even though we're in this lovely little bubble. It's still a really small space in the scheme of things. And within the fitness industry, it's tiny. So how did you find it?

7
00:01:47.680 --> 00:02:10.870
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): Yeah, it's a it's a. It's a fun interesting story. I like, I like how you described it as a as a space cause that I can see myself wandering and like, yeah, kind of finding it a little bit. So this is our second time. Actually here in Germany. I was here about in 2,009, 2,010, and I started my

8
00:02:10.910 --> 00:02:13.030
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): kind of teaching group fitness.

9
00:02:13.450 --> 00:02:23.659
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): journey teaching. Zumba and Zoomba was just introduced me to. This whole idea of

10
00:02:24.200 --> 00:02:36.699
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): this is fun. This is really, really fun. And I grew the class from, you know, 0 5 people to 70 to 100 people showing up at the class.

11
00:02:36.730 --> 00:02:45.660
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): and I worked at the the on post or on base gym at the time, and I was seeing people that would

12
00:02:45.770 --> 00:02:58.129
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): that would not come to the gym, but would come to Zumba class like they would tell me I'm I'm I don't want to go to the gym. I don't like the gym I love. I love this class. and so that really, you know, that was probably like

13
00:02:58.220 --> 00:03:04.350
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): the tinder, the kindle in in the like. Oh, this is so interesting because everyone's having so much fun.

14
00:03:04.670 --> 00:03:33.839
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): And this isn't about. You know what your body looks like, or anything like that's about moving and dancing, and and II was living on post, and this at the time a lot of soldiers were deployed, and it was a very stressful time for a lot of the spouses that were there, and I noticed this sense of community that fitness could bring. So like I said, I grew the class, or we grew the class pretty big, and it just became this.

15
00:03:33.840 --> 00:03:49.200
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): you know. Let's take a moment and and cry together about what happened today, you know. And we were all we were this community of like, yeah, we all know the calls that were administered today. It was a smaller base, and

16
00:03:49.260 --> 00:04:08.199
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): and then we could kind of disconnect a little bit from the stresses of every day, of what we were feeling with people who we love deployed, and and then we dance, and it was, and it was fun. So that was kind of a little bit what sparked that piece? And then I went to go

17
00:04:08.200 --> 00:04:28.670
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): In 2,01314 I went to physical therapist assistant school, my degrees in human physiology, my undergrad, and then, I, you know, wanted to help people further in the physical realm so graduated from that and started working in a skilled nursing facility. My story is not. It's like I. It's almost like

18
00:04:28.670 --> 00:04:46.460
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): it's not like I found the diet during the non diet space. It's like it kind of built over time. And then I said, Oh, my gosh! There's a space for you know. It's that. So that's why I'm kind of going backtracking a little bit. But I started working in this skilled nursing facility, which is people ages 65 plus.

19
00:04:46.460 --> 00:05:10.970
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): So I worked with 70 8,005 year old, was the oldest person I worked with. We I mean it again shifted my perspective once more on strength and flexibility and mobility. I mean, we weren't taking before and after pictures. We don't do any, you know. I'm not saying, get on the scale you've lost. I'm saying.

20
00:05:11.380 --> 00:05:23.049
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): Okay, well, I was. I was an assistant, so pt. With, you know, assign the goals, and then we help the the patients work towards these specific goals of you know, Mrs. Davis, work

21
00:05:23.380 --> 00:05:24.620
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): getting

22
00:05:24.650 --> 00:05:38.490
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): endurance to be able to to walk to the community kitchen so she can have lunch with all of her friends rather than eat it alone in her room, you know. And and so we were working on these kind of

23
00:05:38.600 --> 00:05:56.060
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): hate to say, like wellness, you know, cause obviously, there's a lot that goes into that word. But you know these these whole body wellness, that's that's community. That's her mental health. That's her, you know, working on it for, or endurance for such a different reason than you know what

24
00:05:56.170 --> 00:06:09.539
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): I kind of grew up with, and saw, and fitness, marketing, and all that sort of stuff, and then we would work on, you know, core strengthening for Mister X, so he could sit up and and and transfer his wheelchair.

25
00:06:09.610 --> 00:06:23.760
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): So just a whole thing of of of shifting how I was thinking about movement. I was then married. I'm I'm married to my husband at the time. So we travel a lot with the with the military.

26
00:06:23.950 --> 00:06:27.600
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): I kept growing communities as I would teach group fitness

27
00:06:27.850 --> 00:06:44.019
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): and how I started the business was we moved somewhere, because I just strictly do virtual now. And we moved somewhere and and I had someone contact me from another army base and say, hey? I want someone to train me, but I only want it to be you.

28
00:06:44.020 --> 00:06:58.230
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): and it confused me because II was like what is so great like I oh, interesting! And and she just like, I love your approach. You never push. You know how I looked, or anything like that, like, I know your

29
00:06:58.230 --> 00:07:16.130
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): part. Basically, I mean she was. She's a friend, too. So so we I started in 2,019, no. 2,018 the end of 2,018, with my daughter's ipad, I started teaching, and I was still, or you're doing virtual sessions and

30
00:07:16.230 --> 00:07:38.420
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): you know, in 2,000, the beginning of 2,019, I had 5 clients, so just like in 5 months I had I got I grew 5 clients, and my husband said, why don't you put in your 2 week 2 weeks? Notice that the home and let's give it a go. And so I. We gave it a go, and here I am. And then I found. And so so that's the story. Until like.

31
00:07:38.510 --> 00:07:51.619
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): Oh, there are other people like me, cause I got on social media, and you know I got like I don't take before and afters. I don't take measurements. I don't. You know. There was all you know yours. You start finding all these. Oh, cool, there's a space. This is.

32
00:07:51.650 --> 00:07:52.979
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): This is so cool.

33
00:07:53.210 --> 00:08:17.420
Christine Chessman: and it's, you know, when you're when you're talking about sort of people being able to get up. You know, they're building course times that they can stand up. And they can do these things. It makes it just seem almost unbelievable. How much time we spend focusing on movement for the aesthetic, or that we just combine those to those are just insane, intrinsically linked together when actually.

34
00:08:17.500 --> 00:08:28.550
Christine Chessman: there's so like to me. If your body changes, that's just a byproduct. That's just an aside. That's just something that do you know what I mean, and and the fact that so often

35
00:08:29.160 --> 00:08:58.219
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): trainers trend for that specifically on mainly only that it blows my mind sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. And it's. And it was in in the Pt. The physical therapy world is called Adl. So activities of daily living going to the bathroom cooking meals, you know. You're talking about your function. And and so that shifted my mindset, too. I mean, I'm working with a 90 year old who had been in the Nursing home for already 20 years.

36
00:08:58.280 --> 00:09:27.960
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): I'm like, Oh, my gosh! There's a whole other, you know they they've been in the nursing home, you know. One third I don't know one half of my life, or whatever you know. So it's like just shifts that piece. And and we're working on so they can make their own meals, the strength that takes for satisfaction that you know nutrition, whatever it is that they're proud there have that autonomy and independence that's so important to everyone.

37
00:09:28.550 --> 00:09:34.320
Christine Chessman: and you know it really strikes me when when a when a client would come and say to me, I want to get in shape.

38
00:09:34.410 --> 00:09:38.370
I hear that all the time I wanna get in shape.

39
00:09:38.540 --> 00:09:44.830
Christine Chessman: I'm I'm like, well, what does that mean? What does that mean to be in shape? And it's it's it's only then they go

40
00:09:45.020 --> 00:10:10.139
Christine Chessman: you know, to look like that person on on social media that I wanna look like that doesn't mean in shape for them and doing inverted commas for them. I you know I it's taken me a long time to realize, but everybody's body is entirely different, and there's no point in us trying to look like that person over there, because genetically, that's not gonna happen. It's impossible. So it's just, you know, and there's so much freedom that comes from

41
00:10:10.410 --> 00:10:26.710
Christine Chessman: choosing movement based on your why, you know, finding a why, that's about independence. It's about, you know, chasing fitness, goals, strength goals doing things that you really want to do rather than focusing on how other people perceive you, or how you judge yourself.

42
00:10:26.830 --> 00:10:38.429
Christine Chessman: But it takes a long time. For you personally, Jamie, were you always there? Or what is your relationship being like with your own body? with movement?

43
00:10:39.260 --> 00:10:52.989
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): Oh, yeah, that's a yeah. I, you know, grew up in the States. So I probably have. in the United States of America. So I have the like.

44
00:10:53.840 --> 00:10:59.920
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): you know, inundated from magazines and all that stuff, and probably have a similar story

45
00:11:00.280 --> 00:11:15.650
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): like a lot like a lot of folks of. I enjoyed movement when I was younger I have. You know I was always run rolling down hills and doing all that stuff. I was in sports. I loved it, and

46
00:11:16.210 --> 00:11:23.760
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): II just remember a point in time when it I had blown out my knee so I couldn't play sports and

47
00:11:24.050 --> 00:11:27.350
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): and had to have surgery. And it was

48
00:11:27.730 --> 00:11:50.019
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): I wasn't eating. I was on a lot of medications, and I wasn't eating, and it got into a place of you know. People started making comments. You look so good, you know. Blah blah blah and it and it that just really really messed with me. I had. I went to a lot of therapy for a lot of other reasons, and that but that was part of it, too. Was this like?

49
00:11:50.290 --> 00:11:52.959
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): Hmm. I wasn't.

50
00:11:53.160 --> 00:12:10.390
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): you know, nourishing myself in any way, shape or form. And you know, what did you think about me before? You know all of the all of the questions that come into place? And like, I said, coming into the the Zumba thing was just

51
00:12:10.710 --> 00:12:16.800
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): beautiful like I loved it. I've always. I've always been an energetic kind of

52
00:12:17.600 --> 00:12:31.169
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): yeah, like kind of out there type of person. So Zuma was so fun because you could be a different person. You could dance, and but dancing to me before. That was like

53
00:12:31.450 --> 00:12:45.410
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): dancing and fitness, you know. It was so that open the door a lot for me in in that realm that of it can be very fun, and it can be. That's the point of it. It can be

54
00:12:45.430 --> 00:13:03.950
Christine Chessman: yeah. And that's I love Zoom. Before that reason it's cause you can. The most giggles I've had of being a zoom but class with friends, and none of us are getting the moves right. You know we're trying, but it's just fun. And there's not that expectation that you're gonna be an amazing self, Sedan, sir. It's just

55
00:13:04.080 --> 00:13:26.489
Christine Chessman: moving and giggling, and it's you know it's joyous. Do you still teach Simba? Do you? Just in corporate parts of the dance into your session? Heavy question, because you could tell. You know I love Zoom, but I started in 2,009. I think I got certified or 10,

56
00:13:26.490 --> 00:13:45.820
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): and fell in love with it, taught at every duty station we were at, and then they came out with a pro. I mean, I was certified in zoom a kids zoom. But I had, like all the certifications, went to all the things that I just was. Yeah, I loved it. And then they came out with a program that I loved

57
00:13:45.900 --> 00:13:57.340
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): strong by Zoombas, what it was called, and it was incorporated kickboxing and into like music. It was kind of like upbeat music push ups all this stuff right? I loved it

58
00:13:57.410 --> 00:14:09.890
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): again. I would not take before and after pictures. I didn't do any of that stuff ever while I was instructing, and all of a sudden 20 must have been 2019 2020, they pushed

59
00:14:09.960 --> 00:14:29.619
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): a before and after photo with Strong by Zoomba and and with a monetary award. Now this is something that zoom that they had never done before. II at least I hadn't known of it that they had done a monetary award with it, and it was 20. I mean. We are all

60
00:14:30.020 --> 00:14:55.950
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): collectively experiencing a pandemic, and people, you know, to offer a monetary award. It just felt like, for, you know, losing weight, right? Because that's what it before and after pictures about. And it just felt very off brand as much as that sounds cliche, or you know. So II wrote them a letter, and I called them, and I told them like.

61
00:14:56.050 --> 00:15:24.090
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): this is not what you all stand for like. I would expect this from other types of companies, for sure, but from a company that says, Find the joy and movement, and they have tags on their clothes that say, Remember, you're not about a size, right? And so I would. I mean, I wrote like a 3 page letter to them and said, You're in a you have a responsibility. If that's your mission statement, you have a responsibility to have a

62
00:15:24.570 --> 00:15:27.799
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): you know that your that your that your service

63
00:15:28.060 --> 00:15:57.529
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): aligned with your integrity like it, was just so it it was misaligned, and I just wanted to remind them of like, remember, when you know, remember when it was about this and this and and they they stopped doing the before and after photos. So I think they still do like some challenges now. But they did write me back and said, You know, we we heard you. We stopped that aspect. Now I know I'm not sure, because that led me to discontinue my

64
00:15:57.530 --> 00:15:59.580
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): yeah, yeah, was.

65
00:16:00.020 --> 00:16:12.610
Christine Chessman: it was really unfortunate. But cause II didn't. So now I did, you know. Incorporate. Yeah, I absolutely love that. You're so passionate about that. You know that that really struck a chord with you, cause that's

66
00:16:12.680 --> 00:16:17.180
Christine Chessman: you. It's about talk about movement as fun. It's

67
00:16:17.290 --> 00:16:28.850
Christine Chessman: if you attach the calorie burn of the aesthetic to it. It's no longer just about the fun. It's no longer about that. And I think that brings a very different dynamic to it, doesn't it.

68
00:16:28.900 --> 00:16:37.859
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): Oh, yeah, and they any any in in, you know. They came out with instructions. Stand this way. Make sure to tap good lighting, you know. I mean it was

69
00:16:38.130 --> 00:16:44.449
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): it just didn't. Again I was ice, I said, in the the note of

70
00:16:44.580 --> 00:17:01.570
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): from a certain other company which I won't name, you know, like II would expect this. That's what they do. They're branded for. That's what they're known for. But you're you're you're almost deceiving the the people even more when you're saying, Hey, this is what we're about. And

71
00:17:01.630 --> 00:17:10.279
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): we're about this, too, you know. So it just doesn't. It does not compute. And that's what really, that's what bothered me.

72
00:17:10.339 --> 00:17:25.449
Christine Chessman: It's it's like all of the the wellness programs. We are not diet, but we will restrict your calories to toddler rates, but we're not a diet, conflicting messages, but in terms of the fun.

73
00:17:25.690 --> 00:17:40.689
Christine Chessman: It's always always coming back to fun. I like a fun class. So I teach 30 min classes for the body image, fitness platform, which is an amazing, inclusive platform, non diet, all about just having fun, building strength, etc. And I love

74
00:17:40.810 --> 00:17:47.730
Christine Chessman: just a giggly thumb class. and you know the stuff that comes out. My! My goodness knows, people seem to enjoy.

75
00:17:48.290 --> 00:17:53.439
Christine Chessman: I don't know, but II think that is such an important element to bring to people.

76
00:17:53.490 --> 00:18:10.030
Christine Chessman: Even if it's a strength class, why can't it be fun? 100% agree? But let's go to playful. Let's go segue to playful. I also teach a boot camp outdoors my only in person class, and I absolutely love it.

77
00:18:10.080 --> 00:18:12.820
Christine Chessman: But I introduced a bowl one week.

78
00:18:12.870 --> 00:18:30.129
Christine Chessman: so it was like it. We're all standing in a circle, and I threw a ball, and you have to squat to catch the ball, and then through it. I had a few girls, a few of the women there. Sorry, I say, girls, it's a Northern Irish thing. My mom still uses them. But a few of the women there were really quite upset

79
00:18:30.220 --> 00:18:50.319
Christine Chessman: because it brought back memories of P to them and I. So they just you know physical physics. I don't know what you guys say, and I was like, Oh, I didn't even think about that, actually. And they were physically they were like, I can't. I'm sorry. And they had to step away. And obviously I stopped it and

80
00:18:50.510 --> 00:18:55.030
Christine Chessman: and it just got me thinking about that cause. It's, I think.

81
00:18:55.200 --> 00:19:01.790
Christine Chessman: the physical education that we've all had as kids has possibly done us, quite a disservice, would you say

82
00:19:03.120 --> 00:19:11.649
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): II would say different people experience different things with it, you know, because there's there's some, you know, wonderful

83
00:19:11.960 --> 00:19:22.249
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): physical education teachers out there, my daughter about, you know, yesterday they played some game with, you know, ropes and snow met, you know, like A,

84
00:19:22.350 --> 00:19:28.940
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): and they're just like you said, there are lots of stories about.

85
00:19:30.130 --> 00:19:33.070
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): That's where body image issues start. That's where

86
00:19:33.120 --> 00:19:44.279
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): shaming starts. That's where you know name calling, or whatever or whatever it was with that person's experience. Lots of experiences with

87
00:19:44.310 --> 00:19:57.490
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): you know, punishment and and movement and exercise physical education. So I'm II think, just to what you that's awesome, that you were able to the whole space and be like, Wow, yeah, I know that that is

88
00:19:57.740 --> 00:20:12.349
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): the that comes with a lot of layers like for what that brought up. Because, yeah, those those can be very emotional when something like that comes up. You know a memory especially that is tied to.

89
00:20:12.500 --> 00:20:14.339
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): This is where it all started

90
00:20:14.370 --> 00:20:42.510
Christine Chessman: that strange cross over time. I think things have. Really, they are really changing. And definitely, my kids enjoy pee. And they have a great time. And they do different stuff. And it's you know, it's no longer that competitive streak, and they no longer have to where we have to wear little tiny pumps anyway, that that aside, and it's trying to navigate. How do you find the playfulness? If you were playful up to the point, and then maybe

91
00:20:42.540 --> 00:20:55.729
Christine Chessman: at school things change when your body started changing, and maybe comments started to come at you. And you know you weren't enjoying physical education. I mean, you kind of lose your way a little bit in terms of playfulness.

92
00:20:55.770 --> 00:20:58.659
Christine Chessman: How do you get that back, Jimmy?

93
00:20:58.850 --> 00:21:08.169
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): Oh, that is that is all the amazing question. No, no, no, it's it's I think I mean, it's a wonderful question, because

94
00:21:08.270 --> 00:21:16.629
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): a I think people ha have to be open to the idea of even recognizing that play is something that is needed in their life.

95
00:21:16.800 --> 00:21:37.639
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): because, you know, you say II mean, I could imagine someone coming. People didn't like my class because it W. It was too silly, right, or like it was. It would. It's not. It's not serious. Fitness is serious. Exercise is serious. I need someone who is yelling at me and doing all this stuff right? So that person would II would say, probably wouldn't

96
00:21:38.310 --> 00:21:49.690
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): entertain the idea of, you know. So if someone is open to it. I love to unpack and and and talk about all the things that play.

97
00:21:50.400 --> 00:22:00.669
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): Because you're you're right, I think, for a lot of us. We unlearned it. or like, learn, excuse me, like learned. That play is

98
00:22:00.680 --> 00:22:14.779
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): OP is not productive is fun. We're now an adult, you know. Play has no goals. Right? Like we're talking about. Okay. Now, we're we're strength goals in this. And isn't it? Play is

99
00:22:15.650 --> 00:22:17.160
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): like being present

100
00:22:17.320 --> 00:22:19.399
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): like play is

101
00:22:19.540 --> 00:22:34.440
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): being in the moment of what is happening, of finding a game in, you know, walking down the sidewalk and pretending it's a balance beam. It's imaginative. It brings back a lot of

102
00:22:34.950 --> 00:22:50.770
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): childhood experiences that, for, like that specific person may not be the most comfortable thing to remember. So that, you know I just like to honor that person's past as well, because

103
00:22:51.290 --> 00:22:59.189
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): you know some of us. Oh, yeah. I remember rolling down a hill when I was younger, and some of us are like I have never done

104
00:22:59.330 --> 00:23:24.170
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): display before, or you know my parents never play or like. I just never saw it, or I maybe I had a fun ant or something like that. But one of the things and I know we talk started. The conversation with kids is in a in a non like creepy way. One of the best ways to observe play is to watch like

105
00:23:24.360 --> 00:23:41.109
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): a 2 to 3, 4, 5, 6 year old child like. Observe, I mean not. I'm not talking about like staring at the fence at a school ground, and like, you know, but you know, just seeing how they navigate their world because they are such

106
00:23:41.540 --> 00:23:45.660
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): present presence with a C teachers

107
00:23:45.880 --> 00:23:46.940
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): that

108
00:23:47.120 --> 00:23:57.260
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): you know I mean we. We go on a walk, and my daughter's not thinking about time or anything. No, she's like there's a slug we're gonna go look at that, you know. Like so

109
00:23:57.520 --> 00:24:10.530
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): oh, my gosh, I wanna jump over that puddle today we were walking on a school, and she's pulling me into puddles, and then we're jumping over. But you know, like every it's just such a in the moment piece that there's there's such great

110
00:24:10.700 --> 00:24:29.620
Christine Chessman: teachers that you know I have to say, we story there, my kids, when they were primary school. They were at the most amazing primary school, and every break time the heads would blast music so like pop music, like really current like Bruno more. It's like all the fun kind of stuff

111
00:24:29.620 --> 00:24:55.849
Christine Chessman: at full volume into the playground, and you would hear the screams of all the kids, and they would be like dancing around the playground, and I used to go and just literally sound like signs the gate and just listen to them, and they'd be just screaming and running around, and it was so joyous. Do you know what I mean? Absolutely love that, and we have absolutely lost. We have lost that.

112
00:24:56.090 --> 00:25:09.339
Christine Chessman: you know, when we get to things get serious, don't they? I'm not so life. There's a lot of hard stuff to deal with. But and it's already. I think this episode will be great for people because I need it as well. I don't have enough play

113
00:25:09.350 --> 00:25:18.779
Christine Chessman: in my movement practice definitely not and it's definitely something that I think we could all benefit hugely from.

114
00:25:18.990 --> 00:25:35.110
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): Yeah, absolutely. Oh, yeah, II 100 agree, because it is that non productivity thing. I mean I it's almost it's almost in a way not equated to rest. But it is, have it has that connotation of when I

115
00:25:35.170 --> 00:25:47.529
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): you know, when I ask. People define movement versus exercise, you know, and just get inquisitive about it. Play is almost on that side of no, you know, we that's not associated with

116
00:25:47.640 --> 00:26:04.360
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): people sometimes associate some type of word like that with movement but not with exercise. No play and exercise. It's structured, it's, you know, serious and and so accepting and and starting, you know, just to come to terms with plays.

117
00:26:04.370 --> 00:26:10.759
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): Okay? And we all find it in in different ways to. And music is

118
00:26:11.100 --> 00:26:14.929
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): such a great way for people to start

119
00:26:15.180 --> 00:26:24.449
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): to open up that part of them. I encourage people to, even if it's sit in a room alone within a chair. And

120
00:26:24.580 --> 00:26:53.410
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): you know, so II because something you know I'm not saying dance, you know. I know the maybe you'll get there. Maybe you won't. But just if you if you listen to a song and and let the let the beat something that you're interested to that excites you and let the beat move your body, even if it's a head turn, if it's a tapping foot, if it's a shoulder roll anything like that because it's it's a response. That's what the rhythm of music is so

121
00:26:53.510 --> 00:27:00.299
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): wonderful for that. And that's, you know, comes comes with dancing. But that again, that can be really hard for a lot of people to access.

122
00:27:00.710 --> 00:27:06.500
Christine Chessman: Yeah. And it's yeah. You're making me wanna just sign up to dance class.

123
00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:29.839
Christine Chessman: I actually, I work with them an amazing teacher who was a zoom, a teacher and fitness and and strong. She just lots of different things. And I keep saying, I'm gonna come to your class test, but maybe today will be that day. Oh, awesome. But I just wanted on that note. So this is something I think maybe too much about things, but

124
00:27:29.840 --> 00:27:52.619
Christine Chessman: not everybody. I have a lovely, lovely new client, and she put as her goal. I sort of ask long term goals and short term goals her long term goal. But she wants to dance until she's 100. Oh, my goodness, I love that! But currently with the issue she's got in her body.

125
00:27:52.770 --> 00:28:08.819
Christine Chessman: Dancing isn't really working for her, that's causing her a lot of pain. And I think she went out to a party and danced the night away, and then. you know, was was struggling with the consequences of that. And this is what I'm thinking. So

126
00:28:09.510 --> 00:28:14.520
Christine Chessman: it's a half the joy it's we need to not need.

127
00:28:14.630 --> 00:28:29.920
Christine Chessman: It's nice to have that foundation and to work on that foundation. If you know what I mean, so that we protect our joints, we care for our joints, we strengthen our joints, mobilizer joints, so that we can do those really fun things that playful things with. So

128
00:28:30.780 --> 00:28:35.549
Christine Chessman: in with like worrying with like, we're feeling confident if that makes sense.

129
00:28:35.700 --> 00:28:49.150
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): Yeah, yeah, does that make sense?

130
00:28:49.350 --> 00:29:12.109
Christine Chessman: And I kind of, I see it as a gentle structure. So in the same way as I'm sure that of eating has the gentle nutrition. I see that, the gentle structure being. you know, this sort of make it so. It was the bread and butter, so I sort of see my strength. Training, or mobility is the bread and butter, and then, if I want to go and dance or do, that's the the fun stuff! That's the. But maybe you can have it all

131
00:29:12.260 --> 00:29:22.629
Christine Chessman: I wanted to ask you, can you? Your sessions with clients find like you put it all in so you can have movement, you can have music, you can have the giggles, you can

132
00:29:23.580 --> 00:29:32.499
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): have the sadness. Have the grief. Yeah, all, all of all of the things II have actually just saw them today. I have a session.

133
00:29:32.810 --> 00:29:53.649
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): She. She tells me a song that she loves right now on spotify, and I put it on, you know, Youtube or whatever. And we dance, and we just dance. We have a dance party, and it's it's almost every session, I mean. Every once in a while she'll come up and just say, I don't feel like dancing today. But it's all all sorts of tunes. Yeah. Today, we

134
00:29:53.650 --> 00:30:11.150
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): when what's that? Santa baby, you know, holiday? What if you wanted. So yeah, it's it's that that piece, I think, is helpful for her to show up to the sessions, because, you know, she knows that

135
00:30:11.150 --> 00:30:21.840
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): she helps be the guide of it, too. And and she can say, like, All right, you know, I wanna I wanna dance today. And I wanna do this. And we can absolutely do that.

136
00:30:22.110 --> 00:30:33.429
Christine Chessman: Yeah. And so it's it's more led by the client and kind of what they wanna do. But in terms of like metrics and things like that. I think I heard this in another podcast that you were on.

137
00:30:33.470 --> 00:30:47.629
Christine Chessman: You were talking about metrics in a different way, and tracking in a different way you were talking about. You could maybe track energy, or you could track either sleeping. How they're feeling in their bodies. And this is something which really struck me, because

138
00:30:47.810 --> 00:30:50.559
Christine Chessman: movement for me at ebbs and flows.

139
00:30:50.570 --> 00:31:10.289
Christine Chessman: So I'm not gonna do 3 strengths like workouts every week for the rest of my life. Some weeks I will do 5, some weeks. I will do none. Some weeks I will wanna lie on the ground and do gentle yoga other weeks. I wanna and I think it's on that you can. Consistency is a word that I like to stay away from. It's kind of

140
00:31:11.280 --> 00:31:26.280
Christine Chessman: go. The urban flow absolutely. There's basics that we need, but it's tracking how we feel after movement and how we want to feel. I think that's quite an important thing. What would you track with clients, do you? Generally?

141
00:31:27.400 --> 00:31:49.640
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): II do all all different stuff with different people, because I like you were saying in the initial session, you know, I asked, kind of what are your long term goals and looking for if if they've sought me out because of, you know, following their their usual thing is, I want to enjoy movement.

142
00:31:49.690 --> 00:32:03.470
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): you know I want. And and so we track. We. We track that as a part of you know, showing up I have. I have. I have a client seen for 5 months, and she just started going on walks because she wanted to.

143
00:32:05.070 --> 00:32:33.640
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): Right? Right. That is not a number. II don't have a quantitative. She is now 47 more likely to go for a walk now, you know. So it's that's what's hard is, we're so metric, base. And I don't. II don't it. There is no number attached to that. She has improved her relationship with movement, so that she

144
00:32:33.660 --> 00:32:40.300
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): is either excited about it or initiates it, or has

145
00:32:40.950 --> 00:32:57.600
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): her self talk hasn't proved. That's another thing, that, again, is not measurable. But people will tell me. Oh, my gosh! You know, since working out together, I don't beat myself up as much. And when I'm taking a workout class, and I'm like. That's incredible like that's.

146
00:32:57.620 --> 00:33:15.329
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): you know. But again, it's I can't show a before and after you you saw oh, now, myself that you know I so. So that's why, you know, I don't have pictures. I try to just make it about, you know, yeah, what the people are are feeling. But that's again. Another thing that is

147
00:33:15.410 --> 00:33:28.989
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): trackable. They know it's it's it's there they're finding, almost. II kind of, you know, invite them with questions and things like that, but they're the ones telling me. Oh, my gosh, Jamie, it's

148
00:33:28.990 --> 00:33:48.430
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): week 3, and I feel stronger. You know what that when I get the comments it lights me out like you would not believe like Christmas Tree. There you go, being nice and current. I had one today from a beautiful new client who's just in her words split up with diet culture.

149
00:33:48.430 --> 00:33:55.460
And she was really struggling. And she said, It's been 6 weeks now, and she's finally understanding what it's like to enjoy

150
00:33:55.460 --> 00:34:00.680
Christine Chessman: moving. And it's like, oh, it's like gold. It's just

151
00:34:00.770 --> 00:34:10.179
the best thing that you can actually show somebody that doesn't have to be punishing. It doesn't have to be horrible. It doesn't have to be the way you've always

152
00:34:10.310 --> 00:34:11.800
Christine Chessman: associatives.

153
00:34:12.030 --> 00:34:38.020
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): Do you know what I mean? You've always made. I mean, that's a perfect example. I didn't. I didn't know that it could be fun. I mean, that is, again, not like a measurable thing. But you started right. So we'll say before before you. Movement was a punishment. You movement, you thought it sucked, or whatnot whatever item, whatever words PE, you know they?

154
00:34:38.020 --> 00:34:57.309
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): And then after and then, without, as we've worked together, as you know, you've taken these for whatever it is that you're doing, you now find movement enjoyable, or you have, or you have that light that, like door opens, you just see, like a a little bit of a shine. And you're like, Oh, that's possible.

155
00:34:57.440 --> 00:35:05.770
Christine Chessman: I mean, maybe you haven't walked through the door yet, but you just seen that possibility is a huge shift, because it's always been dark.

156
00:35:06.020 --> 00:35:32.449
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): So that is a that's a beautiful before and after I would, yeah be pumped. Just as I'm not. I think those should be the the new before and after, shouldn't they? Yeah, yeah, that should be all over Instagram, that's what it should be. But I wanted to ask you, what is your favorite way to move. Obviously we've got dancing, which is coming across to me is is anything else that lights you up?

157
00:35:33.020 --> 00:35:34.570
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): Oh, my goodness.

158
00:35:34.900 --> 00:35:38.620
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): I I'm trying to think I'm I'm what

159
00:35:39.560 --> 00:35:41.470
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): I love like

160
00:35:41.740 --> 00:35:48.059
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): I mean, I know II volunteer with my my girls, Little Girl Scout Group, and

161
00:35:49.070 --> 00:36:15.949
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): I love like I play games with them. I'm just trying to think I just trying to think of like, you know, what's my most recent memory of just being lit up by movement, and and we played you know that red, light green light, you know. Red light green light, you know. Ha! Stop, you know, and and so just I can be big in it, having everyone is having fun. They're like begging me to come back. And so it's so. It's just like I love.

162
00:36:16.070 --> 00:36:23.239
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): I love moving, and I love bringing that joy to to children like it like that, like, yeah, that lights

163
00:36:23.440 --> 00:36:37.220
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): that lights me up for sure. And I mean. I love working with my clients, and like I, said, the one woman who danced, II wrote in my journal. I can't believe this is my job.

164
00:36:37.220 --> 00:36:53.289
Christine Chessman: No, you know, because it was a year we've been working for over a year. So I have the like daily journal. I just write a couple of sentences. And like, I'm like, I dance with her today to a song. And we're I have a stick here. We're like, you know, it's all that stuff, and I'm just like

165
00:36:53.290 --> 00:37:16.429
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): I can't. I really can't believe that you pay me to have a dance party with you like this is incredible. I know. I mean, sometimes I do feel really guilty taking the money from my client, you know, and it's if I'm having such a good time. I'm like, I'm really I feel like you should pay. I should be paying you some time. But that is just lovely to hear like if I wanna work with you.

166
00:37:16.600 --> 00:37:38.830
Christine Chessman: which this is. This is a problem. I have Jamie. I interview people on the podcast. And then I'm like obsessed. And then I'm like, I've got to now work with you. This is really this is like, you've convinced me. I'm like, I'm on. I'm on board, and if we wanted to work with you, how would we find you? And what if you got going on so? Ha! Could we work with you on demand? Can we work with you? Live? How does it work?

167
00:37:38.990 --> 00:38:02.039
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): Yes, on on demand. So I have kind of a Netflix type panel type thing. And it's movement for more. That's my kind of my tagline so that you can get through my handle. My website is fit ragamuffin. So I'm fit raga muffin on Facebook, Instagram.

168
00:38:02.040 --> 00:38:21.919
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): yeah, Youtube, I have some videos on Youtube as well. That's so, that's a that's a paid platform that the the movement for more one and 1499 a month and over 500 videos. I have, like, I upload every month. So I just got done, you know, instructing one

169
00:38:21.920 --> 00:38:34.879
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): 50 videos are 5 min movements so like to have that piece where you know. However, you're feeling. If you want to show up for 1 min, 2 min, 3 min, you know. Tap onto one of those 5 min movements.

170
00:38:34.880 --> 00:38:56.289
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): you know, just just to to help with that showing up piece and and knowing that it's it's all. Okay? And then I have a newsletter. I have like a free newsletter that I sent out every month. And then yeah, Instagram. Oh, I have one to one, but it's the II do see people one to one, and if you the wait list is

171
00:38:56.320 --> 00:39:20.879
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): is very is pretty long, though it's it's hard. Well, the the hard piece about that is, I also live in Germany. So a lot of the people who and I'm a mother. So the II have a very limited amount of time that I can see people one to one wish I had more of that. So it's the the on-demand channel, the on diet also all all likes of movement

172
00:39:20.880 --> 00:39:34.709
Jamie-fitragamuffin (she/her): and then, and all types too. I have step and boso ball and jump rope, and I love the Bosie ball. I love it so much. I've got a pink one.

173
00:39:34.820 --> 00:40:02.889
Christine Chessman: I know I had. I ordered it especially so, for oh, Jimmy, it's been an absolute pleasure to chat to you today. And I'm gonna put all of that information about how people can subscribe to your channel and work with you and find you in the show notes. But for now, thank you, Jamie, and I might have to have you back on. Thank you so much for having me. It was so wonderful.